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Fero changes?

Started by Tastian, October 12, 2005, 09:15:01 PM

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Shamno

Would rather something that stacks with those group based buffs. :?

Khauruk

Quote from: recoil silverclaws on April 18, 2007, 09:27:54 PM
I'f you had the option between adding one of the two things to our current fero witch would you rather have

1) 15% over haste - dose not stack with bard over haste but would be good to have on dps that dosent have a bard in there group

2) 15% damage mod - would not stack with champ but would be good to have on dps with out a shamy

Neither.  Both would be stepping on the toes (or playing second fiddle to, depending on how you look at it) other classes.  Would you try to recruit a Beastlord over another shaman for the second choice?  I wouldn't.

Goals (as I see it):
*New fero wouldn't conflict/have stacking issues with other classes abilities
*Fero would have abilities unique to the buff
*Fero will be a strong offensive buff - heavy mana use, but really nice return.  With the spell system being broken, let's have that part of the spell fall by the wayside.\
*Fero would be worth casting on ourselves.

Best option I've heard so far: + accuracy, not affected by the worn item cap.  The highest accuracy anybody can attain is rangers w/ ~75% (worn + AAs), so there's a lot of room for growth there still.
TURNCOAT!!!!!

jitathab

On one of the chats, the devs said they wanted to look at fero but didnt know where to start as it would be time consumiung and complicated.  /shrug

Rhoam

I dont see us getting anything worthwhile as far an offense enhancement from fero. Accuracy just doesnt thrill me. I would like to see some things that are in tune with the original intent of the spell. Overcap increases to stamina and a spell rune of some kind that blocks AOEs and possibly curses. A block to curses would be in high demand and may make it necessary to lower the recast time on the spell. Keeping the mana use high would limit the amount of people the spell could be cast on by one beastlord and make it necessary to have more than one beastlord in a raid to keep the essential classes "curse runed".

Is a curse rune out of the realm of possibilities? It would give us some much needed raid utility.

Khauruk

Quote from: Rhoam on April 19, 2007, 02:45:12 PM
Is a curse rune out of the realm of possibilities? It would give us some much needed raid utility.

It sounds interesting.

How often are curses still used in TBS and TSS raids? (ballpark approx. %age of AEs)

It's not what I'd like to see personally, but worth exploring, certainly.
TURNCOAT!!!!!

Tomorrow

If i had to absolutely have to choose one or the other, i would choose the 15% damage mod mainly because there are items that u can obtain that adds a 10% over haste mod ( i.e. Symbol of the Overlord (anguish), Moonstone Mind Sceptre (Demi).

hmm.....Then again, how would this stack with our Panther series? if it does?  Is this a self buff only, single target buff? group buff?

A curse rune does sound interesting however before i would agree to that i would like to see how we vs SoE would like to implement it. 

i.e.
1) Cast time, self buff only?, group buff?, single target buff?
2) Would this also be a cure to curses as well? or is this strictly a proactive spell only?
3) What level curse would it protects us from? Minor, Major. All?

Sorry for all the questions heheh.
Tomorrow 75 Beastlord of Maelyn Starpye

recoil silverclaws

I personally would have picked the damage mod mostly because one of our parent class's is the shamy and it would make the most since but as a few have pointed out the stacking issue dosent solve the problem of it being useful on raids. This was just a brain storming question i don't expect to really see anything till the next beta to be a change to fero in any form. I think the point of the stacking issue is tho that both versions of over haste and champ max a player out all ready so its not that they wont land but just that having a newfero with one of the effects just wouldent add anything extra but don't quote me on that tho lol

As for stacking with growl it wouldn't if it was the damage mod since the higher % would just take over.

A curse rune seems interesting shamys get something like that all ready as a group clicky when clicked at the right time it blocks the next cures counter spell from landing i.e. lethar2 DT. Giving fero that same rune type in my opinion wouldent realy work tho since as most know a rune spell disappears after the max damage/curse counters are met and with the recast of fero and the mana that probably wouldn't work all to well, something that keeps with the thought of how fero used to be is best but it is a neat idea.

-Elder Recoil Rahl-
    -- of ctv --
a prexus guild
         and
-Hissar Spits-
   --of twinky alts-r-us--

Mewzee

I really like that Fero curse rune idea, thats a completely new idea, and I for one am open to perhaps totally revamping the spell completely. Sometimes starting fresh is what needs to be done to solve a problem like Fero utility.

I know if my Fero could do that above for certain events in TSS/TBS and future expansions my class would be in demand on those raid encounters and maybe my mana bar would actually be at 50% instead of 90-100 during raid instructions/prior engament of mob, due to being busy casting this buff on everyone I can.


~Mewzee Mew~  Lvl 75 Wildblooded Kitty of RIP ~ Tribunal Server

Khauruk

Fero should be more worthwhile in the next expansion content, at least.  Rashere plans on increasing NPC AC drastically so attack buffs are useful.  We'll see if his plans are carried out well.
TURNCOAT!!!!!

Shamno

Quote from: Khauruk on May 11, 2007, 04:02:00 AM
Fero should be more worthwhile in the next expansion content, at least.  Rashere plans on increasing NPC AC drastically so attack buffs are useful.  We'll see if his plans are carried out well.

Can I only stress how bad this is in relation to the already diminished abilities of our pet?

Khauruk

Quote from: Shamno on May 11, 2007, 08:59:35 PM
Quote from: Khauruk on May 11, 2007, 04:02:00 AM
Fero should be more worthwhile in the next expansion content, at least.  Rashere plans on increasing NPC AC drastically so attack buffs are useful.  We'll see if his plans are carried out well.

Can I only stress how bad this is in relation to the already diminished abilities of our pet?

But, with the new expansion there'll be a new pet haste.  We'll have a good opportunity to show the drastic dps reduction from pet melee, and lobby for a strong +str or +atk boost in our pet haste upgrade.
TURNCOAT!!!!!

Urim

Slapping more AC on mobs is NOT, i repeat NOT, a fix to Ferocity. If that is the route that SoE plans to take regarding this buff, they are far dumber than i imagined. And the fact that people seem to think its a good thing boggles my mind even more.
Maelin Starpyre
[80 Arch Animist] Urim the Library Guardian (Iksar) <Crimson Tempest>

'Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity'

Fightclubx

fero is fine, its the way atk is calculated that needs to be fixed.. IMHO.

like AC for tanks, atk needs to have zero softcap for the higher dps melee and needs to have more impact the higher it gets.

Khauruk

#268
From what I understand from talking w/ Rashere, and reading primarily druid and warrior forums:

(warning:  disjointed reading ahead)
Attack and AC are intrinsically linked.  Debuffing an NPCs attack effectively raises your mitigation AC a large amount (see parses by Fenier on druid's grove).  Debuffing an NPCs AC effectively increases your attack (in theory anyway...I don't know how effective this is outside of Vex Thal).  NPC AC has stagnated for many expansions (just like NPC Attack has stagnated between GoD and Solteris), which has helped Attack buffs be almost useless.  Take a trip to Vex Thal, and look at your melee dps compared to any other mob of the same levels - the difference is astounding.  I'd love if somebody would run some attack parses on those mobs to see where the "new" softcap lies - I'm betting it'll be much higher than the 2-2.2k usually quoted (note to self:  Finish VT key someday).

Raising NPC AC is not a bandaid - it's how the system was supposed to work in the first place from what I can see.  Miserable AC levels already caused them to change the effect on (worn) Ferocity VII - the original effect was useless since you virtually never scored a minimum hit.  Miserable AC levels have caused ranger and beastlord atk buffs to be worthless.  Raising NPC AC will fix the offensive problems with the Fero buffs (defensive is another matter).

What remains to be seen is if they're able to retune itemization, casters, pets, pet spells, preceding content, etc,.... so that it doesn't become in effect A) nerf melee for the next expansion, or B) only positively affect the very top end of raiders working on SoF content.

Quote from: Fightclubx on May 12, 2007, 02:45:53 AM
fero is fine, its the way atk is calculated that needs to be fixed.. IMHO.
like AC for tanks, atk needs to have zero softcap for the higher dps melee and needs to have more impact the higher it gets.

The way game mechanics work right now, I don't think that's even possible to code.  Attack and AC *ARE THE SAME THING* - just different sides of the same coin.  Fenier's parses proved this.

Your understanding of Plate class AC seems to be skewed - they all do have a softcap, and a drastically lesser return past that softcap.  Just not as miserable as ours is.  Also, AC doesn't have more impact the higher it gets.  Once AC surpasses the NPCs attack you see very slow gains from it as related to average DPS.  There's other impacts (DI obsoletion at the far high end), but average dps even against most raid mobs barely decreases at a point (see Bedavir's parses on thesteelwarrior.org).
TURNCOAT!!!!!

Fightclubx

yes what I meant was, that for non tank classes, the higher AC gets the less effective it is. wich isnt true for true tanks, and yet.. ferocity loses effectiveness for ALLLLLLL classes see where i'm goin with that?