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Fero changes?

Started by Tastian, October 12, 2005, 09:15:01 PM

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Kanan

aye shiera.. was throwing that out bcs was just in mindset of end regen thinking only.

Having it do end pool buff would fit the theme of the spell better.
Kez's Magelo 85 "Arch Animist" of Final Empire on Povar

Oiingo

I must play a different game than y'all, but I see very little need for endurance regen.  As mentioned previously, disc timers and rez effects pretty much make it unneeded.

``Ferocity'' implies savage damage.  Let's keep it as an offensive buff.
Predator Oiingo Boiingo (80 beasty) of <Triality> on Maelin Starpyre

shenk

Quote from: Oiingo on November 15, 2005, 04:40:01 PM
I must play a different game than y'all, but I see very little need for endurance regen.  As mentioned previously, disc timers and rez effects pretty much make it unneeded.

``Ferocity'' implies savage damage.  Let's keep it as an offensive buff.

Endurance Regen would be very beneficial to tanks classes

hakaaba

Id honestly rather see a nice offensive mod than endurance regen or pool increase.  It would  fit considerably better on our regen themed spells/abilities (SA, perf)

Arch Animist of Bertox (Saryrn (Mithaniel Marr))

Kanan

hmmm.. guess some of my point here was missed.

Fero's got the 3 components to it and after each are my comments/wish list

attack - I still don't have much of a better idea for replacing the attack portion since rangers got my DA% incr mod wish.  Abt only thing I've come up with is a proc mod rate increase.

Resists - I like em as they are.  Getting a 15 or so point incr would be grand.

Stam buff - Here is where I want the end pool buff to be.

ie, spell is this:
1: incr proc rate 25%
2: incr resists 80 - all
3: incr endurance 500
4: heal endurance 500 (this to get the endurance bumped up from the casting.)

Something along these lines (with something better in the attack/proc rate slot) is what I'd like.  My endurance number may be unreasonable.  I got nfc what the costs of discs etc really are, so adjust that number to be appropriate.

Kez's Magelo 85 "Arch Animist" of Final Empire on Povar

Bengali

I don't much care about endurance regen, *except* if they ever make us into endurance batteries for melees then I will quit.  I didn't sign up to spend my entire time in EQ twitching melees.
Savagespirit Bengali Grimmspirit, Scion of Shar Vahl

"My friend Mark said that he saw Bengali totally uppercut some kid just because the kid opened a window.
And that's what I call REAL Ultimate Power!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Jkal_Shihar

I've been pretty quiet on this lately but I hate to say it, I agree with Oingo
QuoteI must play a different game than y'all, but I see very little need for endurance regen.  As mentioned previously, disc timers and rez effects pretty much make it unneeded.

``Ferocity'' implies savage damage.  Let's keep it as an offensive buff.

Flame it, Rant it, Squash it .....This is one buff were none of us will agree on. I've already pissed one person off on this cause he thought I was directed alot of my feedback and comments towards him but I wasnt. For that I am sorry.
I truly see a benefit from this buff but, it does not deserve any type of regen buff whatsoever even though I know I'll get chew'd by some of the others who are more vocal then me.
This should be a savage buff, it should have some sort of meaning when it hits us or another. Not help there endurance/mana thats what SA and SD along with paragon and PoS should be directed too.
I think alot of us has lost sight into what alot of our buffs should be cause Sony just feeds and feeds and feeds and we just gobble it up till we are satisified. Lately, I've been wondering why I like playing a beastlord and its not because of the buffs but the idea of the class itself.
Sure, I want to help out the rogue that likes to burn endurance like its candy or the warrior that needs to save his/her group. But I see other buffs that do that.
The way I see Ferocity no matter what lvl is just that, Something that makes us attack better. Take all the other parts of the spell away and you just have a simple attack buff. Like most said, they already have attack maxed. Most use the buff for resists but as we are finding out, more and more stuff is ignoring our resists. Some of us can cap stamina no prob so that part is kinda pointless.
It's basically down to a worthless buff then. So how do we improve it? Can we still make it worthwhile dps buff?? does it have to cater to casters/priests or is there a part that make there nukes/ds/dots more effective???
I think what we need is a buff, that brings out the animal in all of us. Be nice to see that cleric that is trying to help preserve mana but trying to cast a nuke every now and then to all of a sudden have the power of it just grow. Or that rogue that once saw a benefit of it with his backstabs see numbers that out of this world.
I know that is asking for a hell of lot. Its getting to the point where I dont even mem the spell anymore either. But thats what I think it should be. I could care less of stepping on anyones toes. It should be a unique ability for us as is. With zerkers being introduced and class envisioning still going on, we are down to bickering among ourselves making it to a point where even new people question me about some of our abilities.
Well, thats bout all I can think of to comment and thats at the tip of my tongue at the moment. So take it what its worth.
Animist Jkal Shi`har and tigger
Arch Animist of the Tribunal Server
My Magelo
*still my main since dec. 2001*

smokepaw

#127
Quotewow smoke... lets work to detriment of others to better ourselves.  You know why I want my rogues & monks to have bigger stam pools? So that I can be able to use my hotkeys to ask them for Thieves' Eyes & Fists of Wu.  They aren't willing to do that atm bcs of endurance pool and regen issues.
 

     I can't help but think you really don't understand the grand scheme of things, Kanan.  There is something in EQ we call "burst dps", this is a condition in which our DPS is raised temporarily by using abilities or spells. Now, in the case of hybrids, our burst dps is really done through disciplines which are on a set timer and nukes which have a set refresh rate. Our melee counterparts on the otherhand, have many disciplines in which to choose from. These disciplines give them great power on a short term basis but they have to watch what they use, and when because they have limited endurance. The limit of this endurance pool, and regen of it are set to where they are to achieve balance.

   Personally, I like how things are balanced right now, which is why I said what I said.  I'm not asking to nerf anyone like you seem to insinuate. To me it's similar to the pure caster situation. There is a reason why they have capped their mana regen where it is, and there is a reason why their mana pools can only get so big. It's to maintain balance, not only between classes, but in the encounters which they have already tuned. If you start talking about adding a completely new mana regen buff in there it will mess the whole damn system up on down the line.  This is why we can't even get them to raise SA even  1 per tick. Imho you can cry all you want about having end regen added but it just ain't gonna happen.

   I would really prefer to keep fero much the same as it already is, that line of spells is a part of our lineage and has worked very well for us up to this point.  If anything just need to add a foci of some sort to keep up with the times, maybe +15 to combat effects, or maybe accuracy boost of some sort. Maybe even make it a group spell on your group only with a long refresh. That would be neat I think and not too overpowering.

QuoteAnd if I could see something that would make peeps want bsts along, want them in their groups, want them in their raids, that would make me very happy.  It might start to suck having to be a melee's twitch bish, but it would give me something better to do than turn away from the screen to watch the tv.  It would keep me in the game, more involved. 

  My oh my Kanan, I don't know what class you have been playing but I never have a problem getting groups and I'm always busy, whether it be in a raid situation or in groups. If you are watching TV instead of paying attention, maybe your should take you own advice instead of giving our class a bad rep~

QuoteI would've made a rogue or a monk or a warrior, not a class with buffs.


Level 70 WildBlood of the Luclin server

Dummkopf

I'm pretty sure we will see endurance regen in the future, most devs already hinted as much. I just dont want to see it on Fero. A boost to the endurance pool however is in line with the original stamina idea although you could argue that a raw hp buff would be the same.

Main focus of Fero should be to enhance ones combat power as it used to be with the atk buff part, especially with FoI since the only difference there is the raised atk. So it should get some pretty large combat focus gain. Be it a big increase in chance of procs, or a damage modifier for crits (wouldnt that make rogues happy? +100% to crits?), it doesnt really matter which, it just has to be a focus that isnt given to another class already and that is actually usefull especially to most melee classes.

Kanan

fero has been a 3 part buff, always.  For a long time, the attack was the only part that was of interest to folks.  Due to the minimal return upon this portion now, the resists have shifted to become the point of interest. 

This part's wrong.

I've done my beating of the offensive portion of this horse and am mostly tapped on ideas beyond what I've presented in the past.

I think most of us are happy with the resists.

/points at top of this page.  I do think adding end regen to fero, now, is not the way to go.

I'd dearly love to have it be raw hps.  But I'm gonna go realistic here, and say we'll never get it.  So the other point that would be beneficial and stay in the stamina thrust of the buff is where I got my idea for an end pool buff.
Kez's Magelo 85 "Arch Animist" of Final Empire on Povar

tacyttik

#130
Quote from: smokepaw on November 16, 2005, 04:42:50 AM
I would really prefer to keep fero much the same as it already is, that line of spells is a part of our lineage and has worked very well for us up to this point.

If the spell worked well for us now, we wouldnt have 9 pages of discussion on how to make it effective. Throughout this thread people have said how little resists matter at the high end, and how little the attack helps people with >2k atk. And stamina, I won't even go into that part.

I'm not sure if you're a casual player that never raids, or if you're in DP, but in anguish there are spells that even if you resist, they still hit you. How is it working well if it has a minimal effect? People are probably right by saying it's more effective to cast another BE pet than to cast Fero of Irionu. I'm not sure exactly but people said it's ~120dps? That's over 2k damage and less mana.

And I'm just curious...by upgrading the spell, and making it more 'ferocious,' how does it make it less of our lineage? I guess it does fall in line with some of our spells becoming less effective from weak upgrades..

Saniiro

Didn't have time to read entire thread, but I like the idea of single target fero with STA changed to raw HP's ( and or AC ? ).  That alone or accuracy / CE in its place would make me happy.
Saniiro -- 75 Beastlord of Stromm <Final Door>

Saniiro's magelo

Buzak

this spell is based on old needs: STA, ATT and resists.
its pure and simple, what we need is to have these changed to have similar effects now as they did at that time.
STA=HP
ATT= sum kind of melee focus(which stacks, so not a fero3 effect, but evt. a 30% bonus to double attack)
resists= these buzak still see as a good gain, but if anything dot/spell shield 10% or sumthing like that.

if they changed ferocity to this pattern it would not be a change of purpose, but merely a update to keep spell uptodate.
and it would be sumthing that would give us more a feeling of purpose on highend raids.

Buzak Ubertroll & fluffy ubegater

Chickennuggets

I like the idea of proc mods.  While it wouldn't be the end regen that tanks, and rog's and such would be looking for more procs = more damage, and tank hate procs.  I wouldn't argue against dumping the attack for 25% (or whatever) proc mod, and maybe some CE or Accuracy.  I do agree that it should be maintained as an offensive buff.  The resists are very nice (not gonna try and lie about that), but maybe should be switched to a more modern version such as a % spell shield.  Just random thoughts as I re-read through this thread.
Chickennugets  http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1226640
Lvl 70 Beastlord
Steel and Honor
Saryn server

Kanan

having glanced through it again, and truly thinking on it, I don't think the endurance truly needs to be here, esp not as an End regen spell.  IMO, that should be the Spiritual XXX line's job.  Proc mod seems to be the item that most of us are asking for, at least the option that I've seen most mentioned.

Changing resists to a spell/dot shielding seems like a good idea.  I hope they don't screw up & make it be a capped out item tho, ie, SS for first 5k damage taken, etc ><
Kez's Magelo 85 "Arch Animist" of Final Empire on Povar