Fero changes?

[Sariss Bloodscale]

I'd rather keep the mana cost where it is and increase the efficiency.  Anyone can quaff a mana potion, but more efficiency/attack can only come from gear.  While soloing I generally don't have much of a problem with mana (and I don't use potions) and I recall from my raiding days that mana was only an issue when I had to buff an entire raid with SD and I didn't have MGB.

[Dummkopf]

Although FoI costs a lot i would rather see the manacost where it is and increase efficiency to a reasonable level. That way probably more melee classes would ask for it.

Manacost is still a factor to me personally since i do manage to get myself oom on boss fights using BE and 2 nukes, that might have changed a bit since i now save 25% mana on my BE pet but didnt had the chance to test that out enough yet.

[Chickennuggets]

Based on your data Tast... Fero needs a change, and not with mana or duration.  The increases in DPS that you show... just don't scream Ferocious to me.

[Kanan]

well.. I'd like a mana decrease, but I'd rather see an absolute effectiveness increase if I had to choose one vs the other.  The mana cost is very high, but I'll deal.  I don't wanna have to deal with its poor effectiveness nor efficiency.

ie, mana same, incr effectiveness & therefore efficiency

[Buzak]

lowering manacost is not really a solution.
we need to make this spell a determing spell for us again, giving us a tool for raids specially.

Buzak Ubertroll & fluffy ubergater

[Yamori]

If Fero is made into a group buff, it should only be the OOW one - the PoP one should remain a single target buff. That way no one gets peeved, since the OOW one is not really much of an improvement as is. ;p

[hakaaba]

But theres already 10 pages explainign why we dont really need a group  spell.  Id rather have the effect go up with the same mana but id settle for anything :p

[Tastian]

Yeah there's been a lot of good discussion on the subject already.  What I think I'm going to do at this point is run some numbers on the effectiveness of some other major buffs(avatar, haste, etc) and see how they've progressed to get an idea of where abouts fero of I should be at.  The parses still show fero being quite good in many cases in the 65(ish) range, but especially with the 2k softcap on atk the return on FoI is lacking.  I'll try to put up a few options with combat effects and whatever else, with a varying range of boosts and see what peole think.  Then finally be able to offer up some hard data/numbers in terms of what we want/would like to see.

[Kanan]

still say we got the best correspondent ;)

[Chickennuggets]

I agree that we by far have the best corespondant of all the classes.  The most knowledgable, well written, and best at communicating with the community.  We are all very lucky to have Tast on our team :-D

Now with that being said... I'm really good at thinking of work for other people to do  :evil:  I don't have the knowledge, exp with the numbers, or the general abilty to... but.  We need to come up with a simple line graph or something that is easy to look at and see notable differences) of evolution of other classes dps buff spells such as avatar, and whatever else then compare them to fero on a similar graph.  Then make some of the suggested mods to the spell, plug it into the dps calc, and see what we really would need to get up to par with the others.  Sounds like a simplistic approach, but we first need to be able to see simply how far behind the buff is (in numbers) compared to the evolution of other buffs that are available for DPS.  Only choose the ones that are generally asked for raiding, casuals like myself will always just grab whatever is available, as most of the time they all are not.  It would be interesting to see how much of a dps increase there would be for somebody with an attack at the 2K softcap if the attack component of Fero were changed to CE, or accuracy, and see how much of a gain/loss of dps it would mean for those not at the cap (side idea... has anybody suggested a DW bonus to it?  Can be a guaranteed DW check for those classes that are at, or would come to 100%DW wield without it).  Feel free to use my magelo as a comparision for a non raider.  If work would let me get excel I would give it a go myself.  If we are going to seriously try and get some changes made to this spell, or whole line, we should start a poll on some of the suggested changes, divide them up by the catagory (ie DPS, resists, and hp) and see what the vote comes out as, then move from there.  Right now all we are saying is that Fero is beyond lackluster, and everybody has suggestions how to make it better... but that is hardly going to institute a change from Sony.  I think we will see a change come about much faster if we get together data that clearly says Fero is behind the DPS gain curve against other buffs by this much average gain at this point (65 Fero), and this much at 70Fero... we propose changing this to this, the average DPS gain would be... you get the idea.

[Discordant]

After being in Demiplane, I must reiterate my want for a group Fero. I realize its probably not going to happen, but I'd still love to see it :P

[Tastian]

Group fero might actually be a nice choice for an "ancient" type of spell, but they've never done that.  The slightly better nuke is nice, but fero is one of the biggest conflicts between "casuals" and "raiders".  Looking at chick's profile he's only at ~6.5k mana.  In a group situation a fizzle ~> success on fero would put him in a very bad position mana wise if he were also trying to act as slower or really do any other buffing.  You also have lots of group times where looking at the numbers from the parses group fero would just be a major waste of mana. 

On the other hand raids have made up groups for bards, they have higher mana pools, etc that would make such an option not only more valueable, but more feasible.  *shrugs*  I'll see what I can come up with for some numbers.

Also I'm working on the numbers as well, but remember we always want to try to discuss beastlord things in a beastlord context.  Looking at some of the other spells will give us an idea of where the game has gone or what the devs had envisioned, but when it's all said and done we need to be able to say "beastlords this", "beastlords that" and not come across as "oh sure they finally give rangers a fix to pred and now beastlords want more too". 

As for graphs and stuff I try to stay away from those every since thott's shaman graphs.  8P   If someone else wants to put some more visual aids to the data or work on some other numbers i welcome it, but please make sure you have the numbers right and please feel free to ask me for other numbers. 

[Chickennuggets]

I just said graphs because of the work I do, we habitually present data in graphs ( but since I'm low schmuck on the totem pole... have to get the copy and pasted stuff on Word emailed to me... lol).  And when I said to compare to other classes buffs, I didn't mean to try and compare across different classes, but to get a better idea of DPS buffs curve of power throughout the expansions.  And ya... If I am playing fake shammmy in a group... the option for fero'ing myself is pretty much negated by mana.  Most of the time if I am slower means I'm also throwing out dex, Alladnu, SV (unless a Pally around), SA, SoW to the puller, slowing, and self healing when I get smacked from a resist... I just can't maintain that and fero.


WTB Group Improved Fero (CE +30, accuracy +30, spell shielding 50%, DoT shielding 50%, 75% proc mod, 50% DW mod, 100%melee crits) duration 1 hour, mana 2. :mrgreen:

[Kanan]

WTB Group Improved Fero (CE +30, accuracy +30, spell shielding 50%, DoT shielding 50%, 75% proc mod, 50% DW mod, 100%melee crits) duration 1 hour, mana 2. :mrgreen:

/chuckle.. that was a nice laugh :P

[Grbage]

Mana cost is way to high. Put it in for the cost of 1AA with a cast time of .5 sec and a recast time of 10sec.