Fero changes?

[hokarz]

I'm liking the spell/dot shielding idea. It's kinda how the + to all resists are supposed to work, too. Is there a save vs corruption on the new fero? That alone would make it marginally better than what we have now, at least until more players build up corruption resists.

[hakaaba]

it'd have to be +3/4/5 or +4/5/6 at ranks 1,2, and 3.

Notice that ranks arent supposed to be huge upgrades on the order of 5x improvement.  Theyre generally only marginally more damage/healing/efficient/whatever.

P.S.  Is it now a true statement that BE is always more mana/damage efficient than fero with the gain in efficiency from pet aas, and loss to fero of higher atk values and much increased mana cost?

[Khauruk]

P.S.  Is it now a true statement that BE is always more mana/damage efficient than fero with the gain in efficiency from pet aas, and loss to fero of higher atk values and much increased mana cost?

Wycca's parses were done on lvl70 test dummies, I believe, (i.e. optimal conditions) and w/ the best weapons in game.  They showed that it would take at least 6.5 minutes (iirc) of perfect fighting to match the BE pet.  I don't recall if that was FoI, or simply Ferocity - either way, little dps difference from that, despite the large mana difference.

Factors to consider:
How long will the person actually be fighting w/ Fero on them?
     *length of fight
     *script
Will BE pet be likely to die from AE ramp/spells (seems not likely from my experience)?
Likelihood of recipient death/dispell
Actual gear/AA/ development, and class of recipient.

So - no, it won't *always* be, but it is certainly most likely to be. 

[Denti]

From my own parses on beta i didn't bother to buy the new fero and refused to take fero rk2 from my guildies so far. There's no point at the moment with how fero works out in dps increase.

[Fightclubx]

at lvl 75 now and I got all spells except the new fero (and the dropped only one I havent found it)

and i'm also in a raging fight atm with my guilds rangers/rogues they insist on getting fero when i'd rather save my mana for BE....

[Urim]

and i'm also in a raging fight atm with my guilds rangers/rogues they insist on getting fero when i'd rather save my mana for BE...

Very simple fight to win.  Tell them no when they send tells and don't cast it. They will get the idea really quick. That's what i've done. I simply don't cast it anymore because it is absolutely worthless. So worthless i didn't waste the piddly 1kish plat to buy the new one.

[Kanan]

hell.. I mem'd it once.. looked at its incredible mana cost and de'mem'd it & Loaded up the 65 version again.

The only reason I'll load it up nowadays is for the resists.

The rogues & such love having the 3k attack numbers, but frankly, it don't add enuf to be worth the mana imo.

And I won't cast it on someone who doesn't send me a tell.  /t kezarvexius tends to dissuade some enuf.  I had some peeps trained to use hotkeys, but they're too cocky or lazy to use em nowadays.

[Discordant]

I posted Wycca's parse to explain to our dps classes why we no longer cast it unless asked.  It was received quite well honestly.  Its made a few people realize just how worthless it is.  I rarely load Fero anymore, and on occassion, when asked nicely for it for parsing reasons, I will cast it, but as it stands, its a waste of a spell slot.

[Gatorr]

Can someone please link this Wycca parse so I can show the berserkers, monks and rogues that insist on telling me Fero is 20+ DPS to them.

[hakaaba]

did anyone ever think of, instead of adding effects to fero, asking the devs to change the attack formula?

For example, very high attack could innately start adding accuracy or improve da chance.  Even simply raising the softcap would be a temporary solution.

[Khauruk]

Wycca's Magelo: http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=163913

I'll be testing hunter and fero both, which are purely attack.

I'm about 5hr 14min in, and while its still fluctuating a tad, its holding mostly (I just got interrupted, had to goto PoK, had to nab 75 and bug prathun), but it's looking like Ferocity is roughly 11.8dps at max raid buffs.  Not exactly earth-shattering, but considering the dps we've gained the last few expansions from weapons (20dps AM wraps vs blessing, or 10dps AM wraps vs tonfa in this setup) or from augs (Tunat aug vs DP aug = 5-8dps gain) or from focuses (Fero5->6 = 5dps), I'd say that its not inconsequental.  Of course, all of these figures on everything is from lvl 70 test npcs, so we don't know the *real* gain on say, your average raid mob (is there such a thing? =P).

I would venture to say that 11-12dps on a max raid buffed monk, is on the low side for a buff that is single target, limited duration.  If it was on a long duration buff that was commonly mgb'd to the raid, I would write it off as acceptable.  I'm not a beastlord, but I (speaking for my raids and groups) would like to have a tgb'able group fero buff that was actually a decent dps boost.  Single target spells are so Velious, and fero needs about 3x the dps upgrade it gives if its group.  I'll be parsing champion later (and other atk buffs), but it should give you a good basis for argument.
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Post on teh beta forums:  http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=SSSpells&message.id=82&view=by_date_ascending&page=8

I realized I gained some attack from the level boost, and since the parse wasn't fluctuating majorly (and a 0.5dps fluctuation wouldn't change the results of the parse much), I decided to not go above the 5hr parse I have of fero.

Sorry for the formatting size, but I don't know how to shrink it.

Parse results officially-

Ferocity = 11.7dps boost (it needs major help, more than simply more attack)

Lvl 71 (no skill changes from 70 though, merely the 5 cap raise on stats)- 150accuracy, 75 combat effects, 300worn attack (i use tribute to hit it fyi), etc etc maxed, my gear is in my sig.

Buffs - Fist of Wu, Cry Havoc, Thieve's Eyes, Ancient : Call of Power, War March of the Muram, Storm Blade, Symphony of Battle, Strength of the Hunter, Howl of the Predator, Talisman of Wunshi, Champion, Talisman of Might, Spirit of Bih'Li, Hastening of Salik, Spirit of the Panther, Ferocity of Ironu, the bard buffs are maxed with appropriate drum/etc, AA, and puretone just fyi via lvl 70 betabuff.



Parse #1 - No fero

Offensive Damage for Wycca, by Type Damage By   Kills   Total   Duration   DPS   ADPS   AD   Max   Avg   Min   Accuracy   Evasion   Defense   Hits   Misses   Blocks   Dodges   Magic   Parries   Ripostes [ Total ]   0   16529620   05:15:12    874.03   874.03   10   800   241.51   6   74.27%   0.00%   0.00%   68442   23716   0   0   0   0   0 Critical Magic   0   200464   05:14:28    10.62   10.60   257   800   270.53   100   100.00%   0.00%   0.00%   741   0   0   0   0   0   0 Critical Punch   0   3816366   05:15:11    201.81   201.80   29   735   482.17   104   100.00%   0.00%   0.00%   7915   0   0   0   0   0   0 Magic   0   2020527   05:15:08    106.86   106.84   27   800   248.50   6   100.00%   0.00%   0.00%   8131   0   0   0   0   0   0 Punch   0   10492263   05:15:12    554.79   554.79   10   735   203.12   25   68.53%   0.00%   0.00%   51655   23716   0   0   0   0   0 Damage report by YALP using a DPS run interval of 600

Parse #2 - With Fero

Offensive Damage for Wycca, by Type
Damage By   Kills   Total   Duration   DPS   ADPS   AD   Max   Avg   Min   Accuracy   Evasion   Defense   Hits   Misses   Blocks   Dodges   Magic   Parries   Ripostes
[ Total ]   0   44189972   13:51:28    885.78   885.78   10   800   245.56   3   74.00%   0.00%   0.00%   179954   63212   0   0   0   0   0
Critical Magic   0   501588   13:50:46    10.06   10.05   263   800   263.44   4   100.00%   0.00%   0.00%   1904   0   0   0   0   0   0
Critical Punch   0   10081922   13:51:23    202.11   202.09   29   735   490.51   104   100.00%   0.00%   0.00%   20554   0   0   0   0   0   0
Magic   0   5357066   13:51:27    107.38   107.38   26   800   247.54   3   100.00%   0.00%   0.00%   21641   0   0   0   0   0   0
Punch   0   28249396   13:51:28    566.26   566.26   10   735   207.94   29   68.25%   0.00%   0.00%   135855   63212   0   0   0   0   0
Damage report by YALP using a DPS run interval of 600

Sorry for the goofy formatting, but there's all the data from the parse.

[Khauruk]

did anyone ever think of, instead of adding effects to fero, asking the devs to change the attack formula?

For example, very high attack could innately start adding accuracy or improve da chance.  Even simply raising the softcap would be a temporary solution.

I'd be shocked if they even considered that, due to teh amount of work required.  Their hands have been pretty darn full  lately w/ other game-breaking/making changes.

> improved DA chance - at level 70, melees were just about at 100% double attack (think 98%).  At lvl75, they now are.
>Raised softcap - wouldn't fix fero, due to high-end peeps being often over 2.5k attack.

[Oiingo]

Yes, we hashed the idea of simply changing the attack formula in serverwide chat one day and someone pointed out that it would likely be more difficult to implement, hence the idea of simply adding onto what is already established.  Instead of ``fundamentally change how the game works,'' we are left with, ``add this extra check in the middle of this routine.''

if( player.ferobufrk1.active? ) damage=damage*1.3
if( player.ferobufrk2.active? ) damage=damage*1.5

So on and so forth.  Simplicity.

Honestly, though, changing the attack formula would be the better option, and I'd really rather see that instead.  Same goes for stats and anything else that is using legacy code from the earlier days of the game.

[hakaaba]

What about overcap attack?  Have fero attack be added at the full linear benefit rate. like what they did with shield ac.

Raised softcap - wouldn't fix fero, due to high-end peeps being often over 2.5k attack.

Sure it would, if they raised the softcap enough. (a lot)

[Discordant]

I am still not convinced that even if they increased the soft cap of attack up to 3000 that it would make much of a difference for sustained dps on most other dps classes besides beastlords.