screwoff

Author Topic: If not buffs, then what?  (Read 48873 times)

Offline Sardarni

  • Feral
  • **
  • Posts: 98
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #30 on: October 19, 2005, 07:32:17 pm »
Well to expand on the AA concept (to save mana) maybe a self-group-only super PoS.  This way we will have one beast in groups with tanks for hp regen or casters for mana regen.  To make the spell non-MGB could also be debated.

On a side note, I am a AFEQ(since June) level 65 beastie.  How are you "ubba" guys with stamina on raids?!? If you have plenty, maybe a "lich" spell that will give your endurance to another.  The necros have the Dot/heal spell, maybe we can do endurance if we have some.

Offline Kanan

  • 80 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • ******
  • Posts: 1755
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #31 on: October 19, 2005, 08:10:25 pm »
frankly, an end feed might be sorta nice, esp since if I pop old offensive disc (I'm lazy on the 69 disc atm) and protection really close together, I end up at like over half endurance.
Kez's Magelo 85 "Arch Animist" of Final Empire on Povar

Offline Chickennuggets

  • Wildblood - 70 to 74 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 313
    • Magelo
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #32 on: October 19, 2005, 08:33:43 pm »
I make the same disclaimer of being a non-raider.
That being said I like the idea of utility through pets.  We are Beastlords... master of beasts.  I never understood why Mages, and shammies got swarm pets, and we didn't, but thats another story.  I also thought that we should have gotten charm animal as well as druids... but see swarm pets.  I liked the idea of pet procs of group hp, mana recourses, debuffs, and why not proc a group melee proc (short duration, would need to rebuff pet after say 3 procs).  This suggestion may come from end game ignorance, but have /pet shield go off more often, and maybe switch it to MT.  Do our Warders use End?  Can cast a warder to target end transfer.  Why shouldn't we be able to be the lords of two warders?  Prolly not great suggetsions... but just wanted to get them out there.
Chickennugets  http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1226640
Lvl 70 Beastlord
Steel and Honor
Saryn server

Offline hakaaba

  • Arch Animist - 75 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 758
  • Everybody's favorite tiger
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #33 on: October 19, 2005, 09:06:00 pm »
I'd take almost anything but please not group fero.  Its already useless.  Making it group would make it useless and 5 times more expensive.

While were throwing ideas out, how about a single target version of paragon.  Make it a seperate ability (not on the same timer) but with a similar recast time.  I'd say it would have to have at least 10 times the hp and mana gain over say...twice the duration.  This could potentially make a huge difference in an emergency situation and be a good reason to have multiple beastlords on a raid.

Arch Animist of Bertox (Saryrn (Mithaniel Marr))

Offline Jkal_Shihar

  • Arch Animist - 75 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 406
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2005, 07:46:18 am »
I still like the idea I threw out a while ago.....

http://www.beastlords.org/forums/index.php/topic,5553.0.html

Quote
Jillie, if you feel its in the wrong area feel free to move. 

Alright, so.........here I am not really bored but kinda having my brain buzzing reading all these posts on DPS, AA's, pets, foci, etc.... you get the picture 

Anyways, when EQ came out with a RPG ( I am a big D&D nut ) I went out of my way and got all the books. Well, here I am with the same books sitting on my shelf (cant convince the wife to play pen and paper   ) I started looking at my books again and picked up the players handbook.

Now I start reading it and get to the beastlord section ( on purpose   ) and start reading it over a few times. Now, I know this applies to D&D ruleset but I started looking at a few interesting abilities that the RPG has that the MMORG does not. I'll throw in a few excerpts to let ya all look over. Please no flaming or anything, I just want to share whats in the book for those that dont have it.

Animal skills : the skills animal empathy, handle animal and ride come easily to the beastlord due to there affinity for animals.........

Animal Aura : .....the beastlord is able to call upon animal spirits to imbue themselves (when I set up and play I change this to imbueing the group ) with the aura of an animal. ..............................only one aura can be active at any time........ (list of the auras)..
alligator : the beastlord gains a +2 bonus on swimming and +1 natural bonus to ac.
bear : gains a +2 buff bonus to str and +% to lvl on hitpoints.
eagle (yeah, I know, no birds but still......) : ........increase safe fall skill even if he is untrained
frog : .gains a + bonus on jump checks
monkey : bonus to tumble and climb skill (shrug, its in the book   )
rhinoceros : +% bonus to atk and damage ( I dont use the charge attack on this when I play though)
Scaled wolf : gains a bite attack in melee. (if you want more info I'll supply to much to type   ).
snake : gains a +% bonus on bluff and escape checks
tiger : gains a +% bonus on hide and jump attacks
wolf : gains +% in run speed per level.

Improved H2H : gains a bonus feat to H2H

Now, like I said this is in a RPG book but since I've seen alot of ppl getting down in the dumps on what is our purpose. I figured I throw this out there and let those with good imaginations maybe come up with something to use that would once again make it the "hey, get that beastlord over there LFG, they got some terrific group aura's that might help "

enjoy 
Animist Jkal Shi`har and tigger
Arch Animist of the Tribunal Server
My Magelo
*still my main since dec. 2001*

Offline tacyttik

  • Savage
  • *
  • Posts: 39
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2005, 09:29:25 am »
While having 2 warders or charming and animal skills arent necessarily bad ideas, they dont fit into the topic. We want raids to want more than 1 of us. Some beastlord only skill or spell or something that benefits a raid more when there's more than 1 of us, not a wishlist of skills.

And 2 warders...sounds like a good idea, would help out our dps, but would never happen. The coding doesnt exist for a person to have 2 controlled pets. You'd need 2 pet windows, 2 pet health bars, and how would you buff them? Ask sony to take off autotargetting so you can choose which pet gets healed? There'd also be no way to control them, unless you just want them to attack the same target, or just have one be like our temp pet, no pet hold or back off, and have to be hit for it to attack. In reality, all it'd end up being is your warder's dps being fractured and put into some extra pet. I'd rather just have 1 pet that can survive AEs and hits even half as good as I can, and has some better dps than what it currently has.

Offline Mrcoolies

  • Feral
  • **
  • Posts: 52
  • Dont mess with the Hoff
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2005, 10:19:21 am »
HI
What gets me is we are BEAST LORDS the lord of beasts but we don't have any kind of control over beasts? why don't we have some kind of animal mezz/charm? Why don't we have any kind of shapechanging ability (apart from that crappy AA) that could turn us into different kinds of animals to gain different bonuses for each type of form? say form of the bear could also grant people in the grp with extra endurance regen or form of the wolf could give the grp extra attk or accuracy.

  I think the name of our class leaves alot of possibilities and Iam surprised nothing has ever been done about it. Mage's have elemental controll,nukes, summoned gear and a pet, necros can do tons of undead stuff , slow, mez, fd u name it and have a pet, we have crappy low end buffs low dps and a pet so where is our class defining abilities? I don't have class envy I also play a cleric, necro and a mage but I can see the gap that there is between the things all these classes can do. Has Iam writing this I keep thinking how cool it would be to be able to shapechange maybe the whole grp hehe Iam a sucker for illusions, but seriously it wouldn't be over powering but it would define our class for what I think it should be and what the name suggests.

Offline Jkal_Shihar

  • Arch Animist - 75 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 406
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2005, 12:16:46 pm »
You also have to remember, not all beastlords raid. We have to please both aspects of it. But that is also saying a player that doesnt raid might not change there mind and raid later.
It was an idea I read that could be used for both, not just the one type.
Animist Jkal Shi`har and tigger
Arch Animist of the Tribunal Server
My Magelo
*still my main since dec. 2001*

Offline Chickennuggets

  • Wildblood - 70 to 74 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 313
    • Magelo
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2005, 12:23:16 pm »
I know that the two warders, adn charm don't address the topic of the page, but just some things that I always thought about personally.  
Why couldn't we get a set of AAs (on same timer so multiple Beasts could get multiple imbues going, must be able to stack, and go to short buff box... maybe 1 minute), revolving around the different class warders.  Imbue Group wolf... adds for short (burst duration) cleave effect, inc attack, and maybe small chance for quads.  Imbue Group (don't know what its called) Gator... adds for short time increased AC, mitigation, %shielding.  Imbue group Bear... adds End regen, mana regen, health regen.  Imbue group Tiger.... ads Fero effect, inc melee damage mod, maybe a small strikethrough.  Imbue group Scaled Wolf... adds Inc flurry for those that can, gives those who can't the base chance, Over str (say by 40 or so), and weapon skill mod (increases weapon skill by whatever could be reasonable over the cap).  Eventually can add AAs to advance the abilty and adding other effects like resists, spell damage mods... whatever.

These are just off the top of my head (Hope I didn't miss any Race warders).  Seems like some just feel more tlike offensive, defensive, regen... to me anyway.  Just examples of a different way to go... maybe you could only get the one of the warder you get.  Could be incentive to even diversify the races of multiple Bsts.  Either way... this would be an abilty a raider or non-raider would use.  Any exp group would love any of these every once in a while, and solo its no mana drain because of AA.
« Last Edit: October 20, 2005, 12:26:10 pm by Chickennuggets »
Chickennugets  http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=1226640
Lvl 70 Beastlord
Steel and Honor
Saryn server

Offline Tiroon

  • Savage Lord
  • ******
  • Posts: 511
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2005, 02:48:42 pm »
*snip*
Bsts are an offensive utility class.  We always have been.  On a raid we have SA as our main buff, used to have fero as a secondary buff, and had filler buffs based on other classes not being present(haste, hp, sv, infusion, etc).  Also we offer slow, but with recent changes to other slows, proc slows, AE slows, clicky stick slows, etc it just doesn't pan out for a lot of bst.  We have perfection as well, but that's highly debated and many find it wanting these days.

With that in mind, exactly what do those of you against buffing propose as the reason for bringing extra bst along to a raid?
*snip*

I love playing utility classes. I do enjoy the ability to cast buffs but I am more and more in a situation where my spellbook is clogged with short duration spells and long recast mana hogs that make me feel more like I play the spell bar than the game. This more than anything else is where my recently acquired aversion against buffing comes from and I do not want to see the day where we start to ask for a /melody command to manage our single available spell gem.

For 62 levels I played a utility class that buffed mostly outside of combat and de-buffed during combat and I would dearly like to continue playing this role.

I would like to continue casting high aggro debuffing/slowing spells on a mob and be able to live with the consequences for a short while until the tank regains aggro. I see some desirability coming from casting weaker versions of spells earlier. This would be good enough for group who can chose between weak version early from a beastie/strong version late from a more squishy class. On raids an early weaker version would be replaced later by stronger stuff a bit later requiring both casting types to be present.

Tiroon Firefang
Vah Shir Savage Lord
Stromm

Ignorance killed the cat! Curiosity was framed.

Offline ebric

  • Brute
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #40 on: October 21, 2005, 03:39:03 pm »

What about a stacking pet proc that when it goes off adds a DoN like effect to the entier group for a few sec. Make the buff cost a bit, or be a 10ish min recast AA and only last for 4min or so, and stack with anything but the shammy DoN buffs. Good for raids, named group kills, or any normal group pull that you happen to be FM/have the AA up. Not over powering, but if it adds 10% to your groups DPS on a raid thats a significant boost to make you more usfull than a 11th Wizard/rog.

If beasts are not improved via buffs whats left?

Make us better tanks? Heck I would love it....but no way are they going to make us a chain class or equal to one.

Increase DPS? No way to do it without half the classes starting to cry because most people in the game still think Beast are a DPS class.....shhhh don't tell.

As far as DPS goes I think the uber raiders are way off of reality for most Beastlords. Elemental/oow/DoN geared lvl 70's that dont have the 1.5....a Beast is out DPSed by a Ranger,Monk,Rog,Wiz,Mage,Necro 2/3 + of the time. War,Sk,non healing druid are about even. Time+ gear starts to even Beast out alot more.

Offline hakaaba

  • Arch Animist - 75 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • *
  • Posts: 758
  • Everybody's favorite tiger
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #41 on: October 21, 2005, 07:11:35 pm »
no comment on the single target paragon? lol

Arch Animist of Bertox (Saryrn (Mithaniel Marr))

Offline Kanan

  • 80 Beastlord
  • Savage Lord
  • ******
  • Posts: 1755
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #42 on: October 21, 2005, 07:32:04 pm »
precedent for similar buff has been established, ala the druid AA in DoD much like a high powered SotW on a single targ.
Kez's Magelo 85 "Arch Animist" of Final Empire on Povar

Offline Tsekande

  • 65 Beastlord
  • Brute
  • *
  • Posts: 6
  • Stumbling on the Wild Side
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #43 on: October 22, 2005, 07:23:50 pm »
How about making the warders stronger? For I have heard that after 65, the warders are no longer stronger as they once where (Ward-a-what in the Campfire Section). For I tend to solo alot and since we beastlords don't have pacify or anything like that, often Trouble has to off tank one. I haven't tried it in any of the DoN/or OoW zones per se save for Dranik's Scar, but I'm wondering if I"m not the only beastie to thinks that would be a boon. After all, we're a pet class - and for me Trouble is a necessity, for he's saved my butt and also gave me grief when I first started out, hence his name.( Level 9 and he brings back red cons to play - this was when Luclin just came out. Owie!) But I do have to admit it's kinda funny seeing a beastlord kite - I usually do it when I'm panic striken for I got 3 mobs and I'm low on health.....so I run around in circles waiting for the xp messages as Trouble chases them around and beats them down.

Celestial Navigators, Maelin Starpyre

Offline shenk

  • Feral
  • **
  • Posts: 85
Re: If not buffs, then what?
« Reply #44 on: October 22, 2005, 10:32:25 pm »
at level 70 ele geared w/ the 68 pet, i was able to easily solo 3 mobs in NC.  Two on me, one on pet, I do have the 70 pet now but havne't soloed with him yet.


 






travel-feedback