changes to new spells on lucy

[Xilbeast]

both of our new slows are gone.

Instead one has been remade into a new dot, an upgrade to scorpian vemon i think.

The other is the long desired group IoS

both are now listed as being level 65 spells

[Shere Khaan]

You know, there were threads on how people wanted group infusion.

Grats all you tossers who asked for this.

This is one spell I will never use, if we had a group Kragg it would be worth it but we don't. The stamina is insignificant and the stats are like diaku; 95% of the eq population don't care.

The nuke is good. REALLY good. I couldn't be happier about that unless it was poison dd. The dot I could lose it and not miss a heart beat. I already push the bounds of agro to the limits, an extra dot will simply ensure that I am tanking.

But fancy wasting a 65 spell on group infusion. I rate that right up there with Plague.

Shere Khaan

[thekitty]

ok first  the spells are not set in stone until the x-pac goes live and even then there are changes in the weeks after to items and spells etc.

next group ios while might not be a ground breaking spell it still can be useful for when htere isnt a shammy for the ldon mission or exp group
plus the new pet aa if stays as it is a group spell lands on pets so as of now we have 2 spells that work with this aa at its state , SV and SD.

the spells most classes are getting are not MAJOR upgrades there impovements or a SMALL expansion to our spells thats why its called an expansion to E :shock:

[DiosT]

The idea behind the spells... sorry if this is vague but cant include some info...

-Group IoS would be more widely used than Kragg...


Casters, Clerics, Melee... ALL dont mind IoS too much..


Casters AND clerics BOTH dont take kragg...


If you are in a group of 3 melee's--- Group spells usually are set at ratio's of 2.5 (for mana cost/cast time), so casting Kraggon 3 people is -very- close to what casting a group kragg would do typically...


Group IoS, in a typical group, would land on all 6 members (then be clicked off by people who are capped stamina/dont care), but you still save at least a good bit of mana than casting it on 4-5 people individually...

and with IoS in group forum, many casters wont care if they get it--while they wouldn't care to ask for it when it was single cast....



Also.. the new DD has a new Foci as well for it... the Foci is limited to the new DD alone, so definatly a good thing for us...
Trushar's Anger Foci - http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=4914&source=Test

This is one spell I will never use, if we had a group Kragg it would be worth it but we don't. The stamina is insignificant and the stats are like diaku; 95% of the eq population don't care.

-long rant cut short-

I think this is a fairly opinionated and not well thought out comment...

1) Group Kragg worth it? a 'typical' group, 3 people on average would use Kragg, while 5-6 people in a group would take IoS, maybe click it if they didnt care for it or wanted to free a slot
2) Group Kragg doesn't stack with Shaman buffs, hell neither does IoS.. why are you comparing this to our parent class anyway? of course their buffs are better!  Though, you could cast IoS followed by the lesser buffs for more stats
3) 95%.. where did you get that? I know damn near any beastlord, 65th level, that groups without shamen often, would like this spell...
4) On raids, Group IOS or kragg would be pointless (though, group IoS would STILL be used more, since casters can have it+shielding up, while they cant get Focus+shielding)


Group spells are -NOT- efficent if only 2-3 people are going to keep them... I know most my groups there are 3 people that -WANT- IoS typically.. and in some groups, I have 5 people that want IoS...

Hell, i'm in more groups where 6 people wouldn't click IoS then I'm in groups where 5 people wont click kragg's...


IoS is less-conflictant with all the other classes, it's more likely to be used on more than 3 (meaning 4 or more) people.. and group spells are built based on a x2.5-3x multiple when converted from single to group...


I'm never in a group that doesnt have a cleric, caster, or cleric+caster, .. a 'standard' group typically has at least 2 non-melee, and likely 3 (cleric+enc+necro/wis/magi)

Most wizards/magi/clerics/enchanters are not max stamina, most clerics dont mind dex/str in good groups, most casters have a free slot for an HP boost... none of these classes would take Kragg...


To pull some numbers to show I do some research before I go recommending things:
188 mana saved on 3 Kraggs
300 mana saved on 4 IoS

Time saved: (not factoring recast delay)
Kragg:
-3 casts: 4 seconds
-4 casts: 12 seconds
-5 casts: 20 seconds
-6 casts: 28 seconds
IoS:
-3 casts: 5 seconds
-4 casts: 15 seconds
-5 casts: 25 seconds
-6 casts: 35 seconds


No matter how you look at it, IoS is more widly usable/better, most casters (based on playing a shaman since EQ came out, and later a beastlord) like the +40 AC/MR over the 40 HP from Kragg/level 60 focus unless they are on a raid...

in which case people get focus anyway! Group Kragg/IoS discussion is pointless in that case, except maybe to give clerics/casters an extra 50 stamina beyond what a shaman will give them by giving them IoS?

[Tytallia]

I get requests from clerics for IoS *a lot* in groups and raids. It stacks with their selfbuffs (unlike Fo7) and gives them str/dex which they really want for meleeing with their proccy-hammer. Only when there's no shaman in group do other classes want "bst focus" it seems. My feelings overall... meh. It's ok.

Now the DoT and recently nerfed Acumen as 65 spells... like it was said previously we got enough DoTs to pull agro/tank already. Maybe change to a curse-based DoT? As for Acumen and all the replenish stamina spells everyone had... any word about SOE planning to re-imburse us (all classes with said type spells) in some way? Not that it's important to me, just noticing today that 1 of my 65 spells is (now) see invis+ultravision made me feel kinda... shafted. I never cast it anymore tho (ornate helm) so again I give it a "meh."

Agree with Shere about new cold DD completely. Nice damage but maybe make it poison or disease? If it stays cold then still /thumbs up.

New Ancient spell again makes me feel, "meh." Little better then SV but only time I use SV is when there's no rng/pal in group/raid. I will still ask for SoT/BSS, especially if they get Ancient versions. Hmm... what would atk be for Ancient:SoT... /drool.

While it's true these are still in beta, I get the gut feeling they are close to their finished states.

[Shere Khaan]

-long rant cut short-

I think this is a fairly opinionated and not well thought out comment...

Yes it is opinionated, being my opinion and all. I did not post though without thinking about it.

If you want to go back I gave the same thoughts in the class balance thread about group IoS from months ago.

1) Group Kragg worth it? a 'typical' group, 3 people on average would use Kragg, while 5-6 people in a group would take IoS, maybe click it if they didnt care for it or wanted to free a slot
2) Group Kragg doesn't stack with Shaman buffs, hell neither does IoS.. why are you comparing this to our parent class anyway? of course their buffs are better! Though, you could cast IoS followed by the lesser buffs for more stats
3) 95%.. where did you get that? I know damn near any beastlord, 65th level, that groups without shamen often, would like this spell...
4) On raids, Group IOS or kragg would be pointless (though, group IoS would STILL be used more, since casters can have it+shielding up, while they cant get Focus+shielding)

1) Maybe they would take IoS, but in my experience no one asks for IoS. The only time I cast it is for my pet. When no shaman is around I get asked for Kragg more than IoS.

2) The is the first point you missed the gist of my post, Dios. I am not comparing these to FoS. And this leads to point three. Read my post again and see how I compare that stat component of IoS with the stat component of Diaku. I made the points short so they couldn't be misinterpreted.

I maintain that the stat component of IoS has been very VERY rarely requested of me. I have had tanks ask for it for stamina, but honestly, how important is 40 sta to casters? how many hp will they get from this with natural durability aa's maxxed? Yes, I know... it all counts but kragg is far more worthwhile to melee than IoS.

On a raid I can see a niche market for some classes who don't actually want FoS and prefer IoS. However, all I see is more of the SoT/SV/BSS love triangle with shamans and about who overwrote what. No thanks, I'll let the shamans handle any IoS requests.

Simply put I dislike getting level 65 spells that I will not have any need to cast. Group IoS is one of those, along with Plague. I'm glad some beastlords (including you) will get use out of this, but I won't.

Want an alternative? How about a new pet proc (since the aa is lame), or bihli; yes that would be far more useful for me. Even levitation would get more use from me. Maybe cripple. Or an upgrade to incapacitate with an small ATK debuff since I cast that spell so much.

Shere Khaan

[Nalitra]

The new dot and nuke will  both be okay.  They can replace the older versions in my spell line up now.  

As far as group IoS, unless it can be bought off a vender for a few plat, I won't be going out of my way to get it.  The few requests I have for Infusion now can easily be handled by the single cast version.  I'm very seldom grouped without a shaman anyhow.  

I too would much rather have seen a new  pet proc than a group version of a spell seldom used.  

I'm rather disappointed in our Ancient spell also.  Ancient SV will have very little use as most people prefer SoT or BSS.  

Alternatively, Ancient Spiritual Dominion would rock.  It would be a welcome spell in groups or raids, one that would be used 100% of the time with no conflicts with other classes.  I hope they rethink our Ancient spell.

Nalitra

[larzzus]

Recently I have been surprised joining groups where I'm the main slower/buffer.  Inevitably I end up putting IOS on about 4 people.  What I didn't realise is that dex helps the crits come along and wizards are asking for IOS also.  It would be a great boost to get a group version.

What is a pain is we don't have any form of group haste which is annoying.

The only people it maybe doesn't land on are the tanks and assists that have got Shaman buffs before joining the groups.

It will be a welcome addition to my spell book if I ever get around to paying the (imo) high price of GoD.  That is high price relative to other expansions purchased for download.

Larzzus

[Noriko]

Interesting.

I'm almost always the group slower/buffer.  Most of the time no one has a level appropriate shammy/chanter bot on standby for buffs.  So everyone wants IoS (even the necros and clerics), all melees want Kragg, and all melees and most clerics want haste.

I would most welcome any group buffs.

[Ukator Iceblood]

Group IoS should rock. I'm almost always group buffer, now if I can only get a Khati Sha tunic for the haste:)

[Trahma]

Group IoS - YAWN !!

Group Improved IoS please.


Actually - I rather liked the direction they were sending the 'slows' - long recast, but fast cast and resist mod - a true preslow that would have been handy in LDoN hard - but meh - slow buggers up their game already - no wonder they dropped the idea.


Nue nuke new dot - I am very happy with these - people keep saying 'but its only a wussy increase over our previous' but the point is, they are a considerable increase over our second to previous.  The new damage spells hit the mark dead on the head - only in raids and good groups do we have the mana  to chain up dots and nukes, so we get good improvements in those situations, without the side effect of increasing our solo power (which, BTW, we have plenty of already)

Ancient SV - yummo - I dont give a damn if no one else wants it - I want it.  I dont use BSS, and I dont use SoT, because neither provides as much aggregate benefit.  Let the sit on horse casters use BSS, and the stay out of harms way ranjas use SoT, SV is the best spell for the jack of all trades BL.  20 PCT stronger?  Bring it on !


And yah - ancient SD would have been a better choice - in theory these will be raid spells, so they should be spells that will power up the raid force.


Accumen - I use it all the time actually - because it is my clicky buff.  I have cast my spell version of it exactly 1 time by request, and a few more on my twink rogue who is human and doesnt have an ultravision item.

Well - that covers everything on my mind this moment, I think, except -


I think Hybrids should get a 65 disc.

[Tastian]

Hrmmm a 65 disc...

Disc that raises melee AND Spell damage for it's duration?

Disc that gives auto-block?

Disc that buffs up pet too?

Disc that gives a - resist check on spells cast?

SWARM PET DISC!! lol sorry had to say it.

Beastlords already have two great discs, I'm kinda curious what they might get for 65 or what others would actually want if there were talk of adding one.  That's for another thread though I'm sure hehe, just something to think about.  Imagine auto crit disc on melee and spells, wow that'd get crazy real fast.

[Klav]

this is beyond idiotic.
How many people have been run over by the Stupid Truck.
group ios..



truly i cant believe people are excited about group infusion of spirit.
i bet these people didnt even know sporpion venom is the same exact spell as envenomed bolt. wewt a new dot now i can say im a second year veteran of Dot Resisted Club.

i mean hello?
this is how the beastlord is going to advance?
dont say that "oh this is still just beta"
think about this- This is what the developers have in mind for beastlord development as they dance around testing things out.

this is a down right insult.
1) the fact that infusion of spirit was given to shamans in pop
2) that they make a group spell of it instead if just giving beastlords the next spell of the buff list.
3)from what ive gathered other classes are getting advancing spells.They are getting things that make them better for example > better slows > better elixers> dds > group taps > group heals i can list all classes my god its sad.
a group buff of a spell received 3 expansions ago.
may Khati Sha have mercy on our souls.

and lucy just posted Beastlial Alignment upgrades as im posting this.
1) it doesnt last as long as Sav or Fer (thats not even including the use of focus items and most likely because its an AA focus items wont increase it)
2) 180 atk vs 150 atk |  both have 40 sta | 70 resist vs 65 resist
a 30 atk upgrade? are the developers listening to beta buff beastlords or can someone really tell me where the hell these people come up with a +30 atk and +5 resist is gonna sell someone.
Hey how about them berserkers...

[Murkk Dakruul]

I'm gonna agree and say group IoS is dumb. This doesn't improve anything. All it does is save you 0-30 seconds of buffing before you go into your dungeon. I was perfectly fine with casting IoS a few times every 2 weeks. Group IoS is a waste and whoever is in beta needs to be feedbacking for something better.

Along those same lines is the new DoT. It could have atleast been more efficient than scorpion venom, so I might have to think about it for a few seconds before deciding not to use it. Why do we need another DoT to not use?. Who are these people that get to use 2 nukes and 2 DoT's and not end up a smear on the ground?.

I like the new nuke though, and I have no complaints about bestial alignment. Whats so bad about an improved fero that costs no mana, with a cool illusion?.


Group IoS needs to become something that does more than save me 30seconds every month.
The DoT needs to become either better or something that doesn't suck, like ancient flash of light!. 8)

[DiosT]

hmm...

What do you want instead of group IoS? Group Kragg saves even less time...

we will NOT get 3 DPS-increasing spells for the expansion... so poison-based DD is out...


I think group IoS is better than having 2 Cursed-only slows, so from my viewpoint they already made the 'slot' for our 3rd expansion spell better...


I'm open to idea's, but most of these spells are designed to be upgrades of existing spells, and provide very little increase in power...


But i think we already have that.. our new nuke & DoT increases out DPS by a damn good bit, the DoT alone increases out DPS ~25 points... I mean, it's like casting Scorpion venom twice and having it stick... it's not that bad of a spell if you consider they -stack- instead of just looking at how the new dot only does ~200 more damage... the key is we can STACK the 2 DOTs


and for those who dont like dot's, or are somewhere mobs die to fast, the new DD is a way to increase your faster dps...

they fixed Trushar's to be 2.71 in efficency now, so it's slightly better then Frost Spear now