Steeltrap Jaws

[Timberghost]

My understanding is that when multiple items can proc, it's prety random which one does proc any given time.

I tested this (very unscientifically) by loading my Epic proc, Fetter of Spirits and Spirit of Irionu, plus a shammy casting panther on my pet.  In the course of stomping red con mobs in the TSS zones, my logs showed all of the procs firing, but in no particular order.  Seems to be based upon the proc rate mod.

Savage Wildcaller's Blessing has a proc rate mod=400 (nb the 2.0 Might of the Wild Spirits has the same proc rate mod=400)
Spirit of the Panther has a proc rate mod=400 (nb so does the new TSS Talisman of the panther)
Steeltrap Jaws has a proc rate mod=200
Spirit of Irionu has a proc rate mod 150
Hobble of Spirits has a proc rate mod 150 (nb Fetter of Spirits has the same proc rate mod=150)

From the list here, you can see that either panther or the epic will proc more than twice as much as your stun proc or your fetter.  Also keep in mind that even when you have multiple procs loaded, only one will proc at any given time.  From what I was able to tell in the course of reviewing my logs for about 6 hours of hunting, the actual procs appear to happen in a random order, with a frequency based upon the proc rate mod.  That's not a long enough sample to prove anything, but may be indicative, and I'm sure other beasties will come back with their own conclusions about it.

So what does this all mean to you?  Well, lets say that you get 10 pet procs in the course of stomping a mob.  Your epic plus panther is going to proc for almost all of them based on the proc rate mod.  Your lower rate procs like steeltrap jaws or fetter or your stun proc will proc at some point in the battle, but theres no reason to think it will be right away, unless it's the only proc you have loaded.

(and yes I know fetter and steeltrap don't stack.. Just using them as an example)

[hakaaba]

i vote for double the charges.  cause fixing the underlying bug is probably a code issue.  And we all know how expedient sony is at fixing code issues  :roll:

[Denti]

Well, at the moment i do use Steeltrap Jaws as my normal slow, but for it to work i cannot use my epic click since that just procs way too often, without epic chances are high that STJ procs often enough.

Never thought they meant that by saying that epics become obsolete in TSS.

[Timberghost]

I think Steeltrap Jaws is bugged. 

What I've seen is that ANY pet proc at all, whether Lairn or Epic or whatever uses up a charge of Steeltrap Jaws.

When I was playing with it recently, I set up an audio trigger which worked well.  Then I tried it with all sorts of combinations of other pet buffs, and it looks like to have it proc reliably in the limited charges it has, it pretty much has to be the only proc loaded, since the other procs use charges for it.

When it does proc, it slows really well, but especially with other pet procs that have a high proc rate mod it seems to be bugged.  I hope they fix it sometime soon.

Have any of you encountered that as well?

Also, since it doesn't stack with Fetter, I find myself using my cast slows more than it to be able to keep fetter up.  Especially since I can land Sha's Legacy on mobs up through Qvic and a bit past..

What's your experience with it?

[laissez]

I vote that steetrap not have a set number of charges at all and that it just wears of when its buff timer is up, i mean how uber would that make us if it was like that, not too much more than we are right now just with less stress of trien to firgure out if the mob is slowed or not, then we really wouldn't have to worry about wear off msg. or anything like that.  You still wouldn't be able to slow the mob b4 it got to camp, just like it is now.  So from that point of view it seems like the way they should go with this spell.

[Kanan]

lessen the duration of the buff (30 secs or so) to fit what the devs seem to want out of it?  that sounds frankly reasonable.  No worn foci should be able to affect it then (there a flag on the spell to make it where AA not affect it?  Granted, add'l 2,3 ticks of duration probably wouldn't do that much (Add'l ticks from extension AAs))

[Pakratz]

I like the idea of making it a fixed timed spell, rather than # charges.  That wouldn't fix our issue tho.  I think Sony should tweak the code to allow multiple procs in 1 swing.  Everyone in the game would like that and it would fix our issue here.

[Kanan]

think Sony should tweak the code to allow multiple procs in 1 swing.  Everyone in the game would like that and it would fix our issue here.

I think that may break some things honestly pak.  And it would require one helluva learning curve for people to readjust to the agro that would generate.

And they couldn't just do it for pets, since it's a proc effect.  Mostly for 2 reasons:  1) they'd have to code a new thing for pets alone 2) They wouldn't consider it fair for pets to be only ones getting this proc mod.. and the whiny flamestorm that would ensue would be maddening as well.

[jitathab]

Maybe should make it work like the SPF's. When they proc you get an animation, so you can see its doing *something* When the 4 procs are up, no more slow pets.

[Pakratz]

I dont think making 2 procs go off at once would have a big impact at all.  Take a duel wielder with 50 CE and WA5.  He procs 6x(1.5+1.5)=18 times a minute meaning he procs every 3 seconds or so.  The chance for a double proc is .33x.33= .1 = 10% chance.  So you'll see about 10% more procs.  An increase for sure, but not a huge one(roughly 2 dps increase).  Pets proc 13x for epic+9 for self buff+5 for toys=27 times a minute, so they'd see a proc boost of 20% leading to a dps boost of (75x.2=) 15 dps.  Aggro is not an issue with pets of course.

Assumptions and math may be off, but that should be in the ballpark.  I cant see how people would whine about getting 10% more procs, other than those that would whine about getting $1 million because someone else got 1.1 mill.

[Kanan]

pak.. it would be casters that would be quite unhappy over it.  They already voice vehement complaints over present increases in melee dps.  This coding would probably also be a large pita to do.  And honestly, I think, except for the case of Steeltrap, it works fairly nicely.

[Vidyne]

2min buff
no charges.
/want

[Keba]

If fixing the charges bug is too hard, there are a number of options for other things to tweak:

1. increase number of charges
2. remove charges completely

and balance either of the above with:

3. decrease duration of buff, or
4. decrease duration of slow debuff

[Kanan]

the devs obviously want this to be a short term buff.

With extension AAs, if they make it a base 30 sec buff, we can only make it be 42 secs (I'm pretty certain.. correct me if I'm a tick off pls.. not doing math yet this morning).

Eliminate the silly charges thing, make it last for 30 secs and it should meet the needs that they want.  Hell.. make its duration 3 or 4 ticks.  If the pet hasn't landed the procc that more than once in that time frame, the procs not gonna land on the mob ;p

[laissez]

i'm really not seeing how it would be over powering to have a buff that last 15 mins and procs a 70% slow.  I mean how fast a mob got slowed would still lie soley on the fact that he gets a proc to land early or not.