Author Topic: Mages vs Beastlords etc.  (Read 27125 times)

Offline Skanda

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2006, 11:13:46 pm »
However, the primary pet class' utility was lacking in comparison,

That is what I hate the most about you mages. For some reason you think you're the "kings" of the pet world. No one has ever explained why that should be the case in a reasonable manner to me before and I totally disagree with that attitude.

Now don't get me wrong here, I do think you should have gotten Spellbreaker's guard just like we should have gotten Mammoth's Guard because those lines of pet survivability should be for all three pet classes. Any other utility spells I don't think you should have gotten just because we got them.

Offline Nilaman

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #16 on: October 17, 2006, 12:32:36 am »
However, the primary pet class' utility was lacking in comparison,

That is what I hate the most about you mages. For some reason you think you're the "kings" of the pet world. No one has ever explained why that should be the case in a reasonable manner to me before and I totally disagree with that attitude.

To break it down for you in the most logical manner possible. A long long time ago, before the Beastlord class was even a twinkle in Sony's eye, there was the mage class. The mage class was claimed to be the master of summoned things, as a result we could make important items such as whisp stones and bags that would delete your loot if you logged. On top of that, we were given the ability to deal high damage to summoned creatures for less mana then a normal damage spell, because we are their master and they should fear us. Along with our ability to summon objects and deal serious damage to summoned critters, mages were given respectable damage nukes. The mage could nuke almost as good as a wizard, slightly better then a necromancer (who's main damage came through DoTs), and slightly better then an enchanter. Of the four classes, mages were the second best in direct damage. Since mage summoned items were situational at best, and their nukes were outperformed by wizards and only slightly higher then necromancers (who again dealt damage in other ways) and slightly higher then enchanters (who had other uses) the mage class was given a Damage Shield. The damage shield was a welcome addition to the mage class, since it now gave us a reason to be grouped aside from our nukes. However, druids also had an identical damage shield and could play the role of healer, crowd control, and DPS (equal to that of a mage) and so the mage class was still in need of some serious balancing.

When it came down to picking classes for groups, mages were not a favorite. They lacked all forms of crowd control, utility, and only had moderate DPS at best. Someone at Sony put one and one together and decided that the masters of all things summoned would be able to summon a pet. A wonderful idea! Mages would have a pet that was unique from the other pet classes, in fact, they will have several pets because they are the masters of all things summoned and can do stuff like that. So they took the four elements and created four pets that would best represent each element and each pet had it's weaknesses and strengths. The mage pets were to be the strongest and the most powerful of all the pets. Since mage pets were so strong, it was decided that the mage class would not get any forms of defense or escape from an attacker outside of using their pet. They would get no root, snare, stun, slow, mez, charm, fear, rune, blind, or shadowstep. Through the use of their pets, mages gained the ability to root and stun mobs for short durations. This was based on the pet casting spells and while it was not very reliable, mages could still flee while their pet was taking a beating for them. Then the mage class was given focus items, to increase the power of their pets for anyone willing to quest from the temple of solusek ro. As the mage got braver, he might find a highly sought after staff of elemental mastery to increase the power of his pet even further. Mages had become the king of pets, and pets would be their biggest utility as well as their biggest hindrance in years to come.

And to this day, the reason mages are not given any serious forms of escape/crowd control is because our pets are very powerful and we can use them to ward off mobs (which is one of the reasons pets zone now iirc). A large portion of our spell lineup is directed at creating even better pets and pet equipment, however, this equipment can be distributed to any and every other pet that the mage chooses to equip.

Summary: In lieu of having any form of escape and crowd control, mages were given the best pets to defend themselves against attacks. As such, mages have been refused additional escape utilities because of how powerful our pets are, being that we are the true king of pets. As a nuker, mages were second best. Our summoned items were situational. The elemental spells are more of a roleplaying aspect then functionality, since down the road mages did get an elemental mez and charm but there was only a handfull of elementals that would be important enough to mez or charm at that level. As far as crowd control, escape, and group utilities, we have nothing. However, when it comes down to pets.. mage pets are the best.

Offline Tulisin

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #17 on: October 17, 2006, 12:39:13 am »
Now don't get me wrong here, I do think you should have gotten Spellbreaker's guard just like we should have gotten Mammoth's Guard because those lines of pet survivability should be for all three pet classes. Any other utility spells I don't think you should have gotten just because we got them.

I don't see whats wrong with the logic of:
1. We both got prism skin procs in PoR. The beastlord proc comes from the regular pet proc spell. The magician prism skin procs off "Iceflame Guard" which has a slight (+15) DS component.
2. The beastlord spell was upgraded, iceflame was not. They simply need to create a 74~ version of iceflame guard with 20/25/30 DS on it.

As for the pet haste upgrade, the best for magicians is Burnout V from PoP due to stacking issues, that just needs to be fixed.

As proposed, a 71 + spell that acts as both an iceflame upgrade and a haste upgrade would do just the trick and pretty much clear up all issues I have at the moment on this subject.

Offline Inphared

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2006, 12:49:14 am »
However, when it comes down to pets.. mage pets are the best.

I don't think anyone is arguing that fact, and we didn't need the entire Magician history to prove that. No one is saying that Beastlord pets should be, or are, better pets than Magician pets, but you guys whine and complain that you want an even better pet, when you already have the best one?

Let's talk about utility. Sure, we have more pet spells, but they're not game breaking.

Healing -- You guys aren't a healing class. In fact, you're the exact opposite -- you're a pure Intelligence caster. Heals shouldn't be talked about. Promised Mending is great, and I love it, but why should a Pure Intelligence caster be able to heal like a Wisdom-based Hybrid?

Slowing -- Our pets can slow. But how many of us actually use Steeltrap Jaws on a regular basis? I don't. It's more beneficial to use my individual slow spells than to waste mana on that peice of junk. So our pet didn't really gain any utility there at all, it just shifted from the player to the NPC.

Snare -- Our pet can Snare? Your pet can root, AND tank better!

Stuns -- Our pet can stun, but your air pet can proc TWO stuns!

Tanking -- Obviously, you guys win.

Pet Procs -- You guys never had a pet proc in the first place, but Beastlords did. That's one of the things that defined our pet. Now that you guys got Iceflame, you automatically need a new upgrade in the next expansion?

Blocking Detrimental Stuff -- We have Feral Guard and Spellbreaker's, but you guys only have Aegis of Calliav. You call for something like Spellbreaker's. But, wait... your pet already does (almost) EVERYTHING better than ours.

In closing, I'd like to say:

Stop whining, and live with what you've got.


Offline Skanda

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #19 on: October 17, 2006, 01:59:43 am »
The mage could nuke almost as good as a wizard, slightly better then a necromancer (who's main damage came through DoTs), and slightly better then an enchanter. Of the four classes, mages were the second best in direct damage.

So obviously you also need the best pets in the game no questions asked.....

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The mage pets were to be the strongest and the most powerful of all the pets. Since mage pets were so strong, it was decided that the mage class would not get any forms of defense or escape from an attacker outside of using their pet.

According to the Dev team that worked there 7 years ago and no longer works at SoE. Times change and so do the focus of classes.

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Through the use of their pets, mages gained the ability to root and stun mobs for short durations. This was based on the pet casting spells and while it was not very reliable, mages could still flee while their pet was taking a beating for them.

So sort of like Beastlords and our pet snares, stuns and our new Slow?

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Mages had become the king of pets, and pets would be their biggest utility as well as their biggest hindrance in years to come.

Times change and so do Dev teams. This current team has nothing to do with whatever you were told 6+ years ago.

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And to this day, the reason mages are not given any serious forms of escape/crowd control is because our pets are very powerful and we can use them to ward off mobs (which is one of the reasons pets zone now iirc).

Last I checked Beastlords were rather lacking in the CC department too. This has nothing to do with us.

 
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Summary:....

Summary: You have the second best nukes in the game ("Slightly" under wizards), have the best pets in the game and now you want the best pet utility in the game with no questions asked.... that just doesn't sit right with me. Especially since most of what you're griping about (CC and escape ability) beastlords lack too.

What exactly do you intend on giving up to keep yourself balanced with the other two primary pet classes?

Offline Tulisin

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2006, 02:31:42 am »
but you guys whine and complain that you want an even better pet, when you already have the best one?

If wizards could do the same nuke damage as everyone else, but for one less mana, why should they ask for upgrades?

My point is, there is a difference between being "the best" and "good enough". There is a margin between best and second best that has to be maintained.

Offline Khauruk

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2006, 03:02:28 am »
I don't see whats wrong with the logic of:
1. We both got prism skin procs in PoR. The beastlord proc comes from the regular pet proc spell. The magician prism skin procs off "Iceflame Guard" which has a slight (+15) DS component.
2. The beastlord spell was upgraded, iceflame was not. They simply need to create a 74~ version of iceflame guard with 20/25/30 DS on it.

As for the pet haste upgrade, the best for magicians is Burnout V from PoP due to stacking issues, that just needs to be fixed.

As proposed, a 71 + spell that acts as both an iceflame upgrade and a haste upgrade would do just the trick and pretty much clear up all issues I have at the moment on this subject.

You're right on point number 1, and absolutely wrong on point number 2.  Prism Skin was included on our new pet proc because, stay with me here, IT WOULD NEVER BE USED OTHERWISE.  LAIRN WAS A DOWNGRADE IF IT WASN'T INCLUDED.  MAGES CAN STILL USE ICEFLAME GUARD ON THEIR PETS!  THE FUNCTIONALITY IS STILL THERE!  NOTHING IS STOPPING YOU FROM USING IT.  NOTHING WAS ADDED TO THE BEASTLORD PROC TO MAKE IT MORE SPECIAL.  The dev team wrote themselves into a box when they added it as a normal beastlord pet proc.  THERE WAS SIMPLY NO OTHER ROUTE FOR THEM TO TAKE.  Iceflame guard stacks w/ the other mage pet buffs.  Hence, no "need" to continue the line as it's already in place in *almost* the same implementation you're asking for.

Why the heck mages would want to take up a 'spell slot' for an upgraded DS on iceflame guard as a trade for a better summon/nuke/whatever, I have no friggin' clue!

Is mage haste scrizzewed atm...perhaps.  But, Iceflame guard should be a friggin' non-issue.

Beastlord Pet Utility

Slow - they gimpified our slow so now it's not controllable by the PC.  Downgrade, esp. due to it's stacking issues w/ epic, etc,.  THIS WASN'T A NEW THING FOR US, JUST A NEW IMPLEMENTATION TO AN EXISTING ABILITY that mages, imnsho, should never be given to mages.Nonissue

Snare - lacks reliability, just like mage pet roots.  Nonissue

Spellbreaker's Guard - we agree w/ you (well, I think we surpass general *expressed* mage wishes, that both Mammoth and Spellbreaker's ought to head out to all 3 pet classes.

Heals - your pet tanks much better than ours, so I see it as a non-issue.  It's situational at best.
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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2006, 03:21:19 am »
Why do any magicians feel that arguing here is going to accomplish anything, in a forum where their viewpoints will almost certainly NOT be heard by devs. You're not even communicating with your own community correspondant, and you really don't expect ours to go to bat for you, do you?

I suggest you start a new thread in the dev forums that doesn't even mention the other pet classes, since your most valid points have nothing whatsover to do with them (i.e. stacking issues). If you can keep the jealousy and/or entitlement feelings out of it and stick to the issues, you might get listened to.

Offline Nilaman

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2006, 03:52:34 am »

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Through the use of their pets, mages gained the ability to root and stun mobs for short durations. This was based on the pet casting spells and while it was not very reliable, mages could still flee while their pet was taking a beating for them.

So sort of like Beastlords and our pet snares, stuns and our new Slow?

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And to this day, the reason mages are not given any serious forms of escape/crowd control is because our pets are very powerful and we can use them to ward off mobs (which is one of the reasons pets zone now iirc).

Last I checked Beastlords were rather lacking in the CC department too. This has nothing to do with us.

Summary: You have the second best nukes in the game ("Slightly" under wizards), have the best pets in the game and now you want the best pet utility in the game with no questions asked.... that just doesn't sit right with me. Especially since most of what you're griping about (CC and escape ability) beastlords lack too.

What exactly do you intend on giving up to keep yourself balanced with the other two primary pet classes?

While mage pets can root, beastlord pets can snare and slow (and the beastlord himself can slow).. which is one more method of survival then we have. That isn't really the issue though, I don't mind Beastlords being able to slow or snare etc. Fact of the matter is, beastlords have a better chance to CC then mages do, with the ability to snare/slow and take a few hits. I don't care to discuss who has what for CC and the like, you asked for the definitive answer about why mage pets are to be the best. You say times change, but I still lack any additional forms of escape outside of my pet. Maybe times change, but the mage class hasn't changed that much.

Have you looked at mage nukes lately? Our best nuke does roughly HALF of a wizard's best nuke. That equates to mages not even being close to wizards in terms of nukes (times are changin'), and putting more focus on our pets. And as far as keeping balanced among the other primary pet classes? Necros gave up their pet abilities in order to get all the other abilities Necros have (not getting into that here), their DoTs easily outdamage our nukes, so I'm not concerned about keeping balanced with them in the least.

Beastlords and their pets? Frankly, I don't think we need to give up anything. Beastlord pets are closing the gap between mage pets and I do not feel that there needs to be anything given up. Beastlords and Mages are two very different classes (beastlords can tank and deal melee DPS while mages can not tank and deal ranged DPS), I don't think there needs to be any kind of balancing outside of the pet's and their support spells. I don't care where beastlords themselves parse on raids, it's not my concern, they are a different class with their own strengths and weaknesses. However, their own pets are increasing in power while mage pets seem to remain similar to where they were in the last expansion. Beastlord support spells are really nice for a pet class to have, and it is causing the gap to close among the pets. Since this shouldn't be the case (already explained why), I don't think it's asking much to give mage pets some kind of support spells/skills similar to beastlords to continue keeping the gap the same.

Giving up something is really not needed if we're discussing keeping the pets equal. I'm not going to get into beastlord DPS and the like, this is merely a pet discussion. If you still want me to give up something I'll gladly give up Flare, True North, See Invis, Kindle, fire pet from 50-70, most of my summoned items from 1-50, and the amazingly uber pet spell DS.

Nusa: I'm here to bring up a sensible discussion with the beastlords because this isn't an issue where anyone needs to be bitter over. I'm not calling nerf, I'm not screaming that this is extremely overpowering for anyone, it's merely a discussion about the pet support spells both classes have and why the beastlord pet is closing the gap between mage pets. I'm not being rude or derogatory towards the people here or their opinions. I'd expect the same respect, but then again.. this is the beastlord forum and people are entitled to act however they wish. No one here is asking beastlords to have their correspondant "go to bat" for us, I could care less about what he/she does. We have our own and he can argue with the best of them. This thread wasn't brought about by a mage, it was posted by another beastlord and only has a few mages stopping in to give you their opinion on the matter. If you disagree with it, fine, but there's no harm in discussing it here.

Offline Skanda

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2006, 04:08:14 am »
I'm here to bring up a sensible discussion with the beastlords because this isn't an issue where anyone needs to be bitter over.

There's no sense in any discussion where you are trying to argue (with no real leg to stand on) that you should be the best at everything. Mages were never a major utility class, beastlords started from day 1 as a utility class. So coming to our forums and trying to say that you should have better pet utility then us is absurd. Let's not even mention the fact that our utility is restricted to our own pets and so a non issue to anyone but the beastlord while you're pet utility can be passed around the everyone.

You don't have an argument that I can see except in the case of Spellbreaker/Mammoth. You have no leg to stand on concerning Steeltrap because it's a spell that was already in our lineup. You don't really have a leg to stand on for Promised Mending because you're not a healing class, plus your pets tank a hell of a lot better so should require less healing.

I'm not really interested in your "I wanna be the best" class whines spilling over onto our boards. If you want to keep this discussion open then I suggest you step back and try to keep your complaints to a reasonable level. It seems most people here would support the Spellbreaker/Mammoth change for ALL the pet classes. I doubt you're going to drum up much support for mages getting pet upgrades or slow procs or snare procs or whatever it is you're looking for just because beastlord pets have become a "threat" (that's a word used by a mage btw about our pet) to your pet.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 04:10:22 am by Skanda »

Offline Nilaman

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #25 on: October 17, 2006, 05:09:15 am »

There's no sense in any discussion where you are trying to argue (with no real leg to stand on) that you should be the best at everything. Mages were never a major utility class, beastlords started from day 1 as a utility class. So coming to our forums and trying to say that you should have better pet utility then us is absurd. Let's not even mention the fact that our utility is restricted to our own pets and so a non issue to anyone but the beastlord while you're pet utility can be passed around the everyone.

You don't have an argument that I can see except in the case of Spellbreaker/Mammoth. You have no leg to stand on concerning Steeltrap because it's a spell that was already in our lineup. You don't really have a leg to stand on for Promised Mending because you're not a healing class, plus your pets tank a hell of a lot better so should require less healing.

I'm not really interested in your "I wanna be the best" class whines spilling over onto our boards. If you want to keep this discussion open then I suggest you step back and try to keep your complaints to a reasonable level. It seems most people here would support the Spellbreaker/Mammoth change for ALL the pet classes. I doubt you're going to drum up much support for mages getting pet upgrades or slow procs or snare procs or whatever it is you're looking for just because beastlord pets have become a "threat" (that's a word used by a mage btw about our pet) to your pet.

In fact, I used the term threat. Frankly, the gap between the pets is closing due to beastlords getting better pet support spells. It's a fact, and I know damn well that beastlords wouldn't like it if mages were given the ability to tank and do respectable melee damage as well as slow. No, that would be encrouching on your territory and you wouldn't feel too happy about it.

As far as arguing without a leg to stand on, I'm standing on them just fine. If you don't care to aknowledge them, that's your issue. I'm not going to repeat myself over and over in hopes that you might pick up a grain of information because you're being thick. Sometimes it works better to cover your ears with your hands and scream "LALALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU!" There's no one crying nerf, so your class is safe. Back to what you said earlier, "Mages were never a major utility class", which means we are the major pet class.. right? Since either we're utility, DPS, or pet(?). We are out-nuked, so we must not be the major nuke class. In fact, the only thing mages really had was the best pets. Guess that makes us the king of pets.. right? So continuing with that train of thought, how is it possible for beastlords to get things like Spellbreaker and leave mages in the dust on raids while their pet survives through the AEs? We're the main pet class, right? Your train of thought has led me to that reasoning yet again, so why are beastlord pets surviving during raids when my pet lays down and dies? I'm blown away by the utility that beastlords have been given for their pets, not to mention for groups and the like. Yet they continue to be able to tank/DPS/utility and have a pet that doesn't suck.

As someone told me earlier "What exactly do you intend on giving up to keep yourself balanced with the other two primary pet classes?". What have beastlords given up to gain such powerful pet spells anyway? I'm curious to know, so I can make some suggestions.

Offline Shamno

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #26 on: October 17, 2006, 05:13:09 am »
Here is the problem.

Runes such as Spellbreakers Guard and Mammoth Skin should have been shared on both ends. Relaly no argueing on this. These like pet focus effects and like the spell line sstarted out in LDoN, should be universal. Heck I don't care if you get a prism skin proc upgrade or someother way to get it functional on your pets.....but keep in mind it probably won't be as strong as beastlords.

The PR heal spell, to me isn't such a huge deal for mages to get a version of it......but understand even if you got the exact same heal spells you will not heal as well as beastlords. You have less access to heal focus and heal AA's. Though I am all for expanding the mages healing spell line....might need a revamp overall. I just don't htink you can expect to heal as well as us.

These seem to be the major issues. The heals are up for some debate I guess, but overall we agree.

Utiltiy.....as I said earlier is just that. Utiltiy.....things like pet aura, mage toy, mod rods and beastlord buffs and slows are utility. They can effect pets, but they aren't really counted in the total package of what the pet does. Somehow some mages are painting some mystical pet gap closer when we use thier utility. To me this does not add up.

Also one can argue mages do have better pet utilty.....they effect more pets then their own *shrug*

Listen guys. In many ways, most classes get defensive about any thread of this nature no matter how inthreatening it was suppose to come off of. So I think we all need to calm down a tad.


Offline Nilaman

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #27 on: October 17, 2006, 05:22:25 am »
And what's up with this Karma stuff? Can I get even more negative? Tulisin has +1 somehow, I'm so much cooler then him anyway.. you know.. because I'm evocation and he's not.

Nusa

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #28 on: October 17, 2006, 05:32:46 am »
While mage pets can root, beastlord pets can snare and slow (and the beastlord himself can slow).. which is one more method of survival then we have. That isn't really the issue though, I don't mind Beastlords being able to slow or snare etc. Fact of the matter is, beastlords have a better chance to CC then mages do, with the ability to snare/slow and take a few hits. I don't care to discuss who has what for CC and the like, you asked for the definitive answer about why mage pets are to be the best. You say times change, but I still lack any additional forms of escape outside of my pet. Maybe times change, but the mage class hasn't changed that much.
Ok, if you gotta count escape routes, let's mention Gate. You got it, we don't. Casts fast, usually works. While we're at it, lets mention your ability to rescue others with CoTH. Talk about a valuable utility.
As for definitive answer, there is no such thing, only what the devs have decided is currently best for class balance. Pointing at the original class description from before beastlords even existed is a futile exercise.

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Have you looked at mage nukes lately? Our best nuke does roughly HALF of a wizard's best nuke. That equates to mages not even being close to wizards in terms of nukes (times are changin'), and putting more focus on our pets. And as far as keeping balanced among the other primary pet classes? Necros gave up their pet abilities in order to get all the other abilities Necros have (not getting into that here), their DoTs easily outdamage our nukes, so I'm not concerned about keeping balanced with them in the least.
Have you looked at beastlord nukes lately? Or our DoT's? We're not even in the same league. Enough said.

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Beastlords and their pets? Frankly, I don't think we need to give up anything. Beastlord pets are closing the gap between mage pets and I do not feel that there needs to be anything given up. Beastlords and Mages are two very different classes (beastlords can tank and deal melee DPS while mages can not tank and deal ranged DPS), I don't think there needs to be any kind of balancing outside of the pet's and their support spells. I don't care where beastlords themselves parse on raids, it's not my concern, they are a different class with their own strengths and weaknesses. However, their own pets are increasing in power while mage pets seem to remain similar to where they were in the last expansion. Beastlord support spells are really nice for a pet class to have, and it is causing the gap to close among the pets. Since this shouldn't be the case (already explained why), I don't think it's asking much to give mage pets some kind of support spells/skills similar to beastlords to continue keeping the gap the same.
You keep making unsupported claims. You're making the claim, so please back it up with some data. Saying you don't care about the data (and you ACTUALLY SAID that above) isn't going to get you anywhere. I contend that beastlord pets have not closed any gaps, even if a few magicians perceive otherwise. Heck, some started out claiming beastlord pets were better than magician ones...even YOU don't believe that.

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Giving up something is really not needed if we're discussing keeping the pets equal. I'm not going to get into beastlord DPS and the like, this is merely a pet discussion. If you still want me to give up something I'll gladly give up Flare, True North, See Invis, Kindle, fire pet from 50-70, most of my summoned items from 1-50, and the amazingly uber pet spell DS.
Too late, you already got into DPS issues above. And there's no such thing as "merely a pet discussion". The player is involved from step one, starting from the decision on which type of pet to summon. And without specifying a very specific test environment (or set of environments), there's really nothing more to talk about.

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Nusa: I'm here to bring up a sensible discussion with the beastlords because this isn't an issue where anyone needs to be bitter over. I'm not calling nerf, I'm not screaming that this is extremely overpowering for anyone, it's merely a discussion about the pet support spells both classes have and why the beastlord pet is closing the gap between mage pets. I'm not being rude or derogatory towards the people here or their opinions. I'd expect the same respect, but then again.. this is the beastlord forum and people are entitled to act however they wish. No one here is asking beastlords to have their correspondant "go to bat" for us, I could care less about what he/she does. We have our own and he can argue with the best of them. This thread wasn't brought about by a mage, it was posted by another beastlord and only has a few mages stopping in to give you their opinion on the matter. If you disagree with it, fine, but there's no harm in discussing it here.

My point is why are you bothering? Best case you get called on your shit like I just did, and worst case it turns into flames and the thead gets locked.

Offline Khauruk

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Re: Mages vs Beastlords etc.
« Reply #29 on: October 17, 2006, 05:38:11 am »
Nilaman - you ***CANNOT*** discuss pets w/o discussing the class as a whole, and it's role in EQ as a whole.  C'mon man...at least give us a reason to pay attention to what you're saying.

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I'm blown away by the utility that beastlords have been given for their pets

Drama much?

Chill out man...the gap is miniscule, comprising 2(?) spells.  And guess what....we agree w/ you on those.  But, you have "pet utility" out the wazoo that we don't get innately.  Hmm...imo, you come out on top.
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