pet agro on raids

[bugman]

here's the situation: im in VT with my guild, we're doing one of the later named that has traps near him. as we rush the named the traps spawn a couple adds. the whole raid is told to assist on the adds and we all do. now i see our main tank has the named in position, and its a pretty chaotic environment with heals having to go many places instead of just one since there are several adds and a named all at once. so since the named is in the proper position i send my pet onto it while we kill the adds. now just about everyone starts frantically yelling PET PET PET and freaking out so i back it off.

the reason i sent my pet, intentionally, onto the named mob, that was in position in a chaotic situation was that i know my pet generates a ton of agro (i dont turn pet taunt off for this reason). my thinking is as long as my pet has high agro, if the main tank loses agro (there was alot of fast heals being thrown about and early fast heal agro can be a problem) my pet will often still be pretty damn high on the hate list and may keep the mob from runing at clerics and debuffers and staying on the nearest PC which in this case would be the main tank. now additionally my thinking is that if my pet stays high on the hate list and the maintank goes down the next tank would usually step up to start tanking, and most likely then be the closest PC to the named mob and start attacking the new tank.

now this is all theory and my only evidence of this happening is one time a named type mob on a raid was out of position and our raid leader told everyone to back off, which we all did including me backing off pet. so the whole raid is backed off and the main tank is trying to move the mob and every time he tries the mob summons my pet, which is re /back offed and re /pet holded and runs back me. this happened like 4 times and finally doesnt summon and runs to the tank and is repositioned.

this got me thinking about pets being valuable to keep high agro to keep mobs positioned on the main tank and attacking the closest PC, which should always of course be the main tank. also this got me thinking in situations where mid fight a wipe is happening anytime a tank goes down the mob will turn to the nearest PC to start attacking it, which should be another tank or at least a melee class and not some caster or healer. imo its genius thinking, and could make pets very valuable on raid mobs, but the few people ive talked to about it think its an idiotic idea and that pet agro doesnt work like that on raid mobs.

so i come to you guys to discuss this further as ive got nobody else to either confirm my thoughts and actions and since the only reaction ive gotten, like on that raid, was that i was practicing bad pet managment, i would prefer the qualified opinion of you guys to tell me if it was idiocy or if it was a smart move on my part. i dont like being told im a dumbass by random non pet classes, but from you guys i would accept it  :wink:

sorry Hrann but edited some stuff that made it seem like i was bitter towards my guild over the incident, im not and didnt want it to seem like it was me vs them as its an information issue and not an issue of who's right and who's wrong.

[Hrann]

Of course, pet aggro works exactly as you've described.  It's the MTs in your guild that are dumbasses, not you.

[Rhaynne]

You were right.

Most people tend to be pretty pet ignorant.  Hell, I still get people telling me to move my pet so it won't agro a mob.

[Noriko]

That's something you need to bring to your guild and have everyone understand the potential tactical advantage.  Its something every guild goes through when incorporating new classes and new abilities.  The majority of EQ players are still very ignorant about pet classes.  This is especially true for BL since our pets are not just DoTs, they are actual tanks.

[Tytallia]

I tried bringing this tidbit of knowledge to my guild's attention. The first 2 replies were straight up rants/flames that got the post moved to the RnF section of the board. People either don't believe pets can overaggro melees and hold mobs in position exactly like you described or it's not a big enough benefit to outweigh the plethora of pet evils.

Too many people have no problem with attacking pets and blaming so much on them because they aren't players. Everybody remembers when the pet wiped the raid a year ago but the player that wiped the raid last week is ok because it was an honest mistake (just an example). Oddly enough what is even more annoying is when people blame the pet 100% (because of mis-understood game mechanics) and then tell me it's not my fault and they aren't belittling my pet control ability. When in fact it was me being lax that caused the wipe. They seem to think that it's ok to attack/blame/hate pets because they aren't players, ie they aren't hurting anyone's feelings. /BOGGLE

Sorry bout the derail, what you posted is all true and I've watched casters get saved from being summoned because of pets high on the aggro list. Good luck teaching people how it's beneficial. Especially the players that play pet classes and disagree.

[Argach]

When time VZ procs FD on MT or two, casters never get summoned because my pet keeps aggro in melee range - rangers and rogues and monks go splat instead. If mob warps, it'll summon my Fluffy first most likely and perhaps the delay when it chews through PoC and then pet saves a player or two. Heh, seen my pet tank time TZ once for 10 sec, enraged, when a retreat was called.  :D

[bugman]

yah come to think of it ive noticed that few times on whichever of the cursed cycle mobs casts aoe FD. couples times were complete chaos and we did mob out in the open and pets (i believe) would be victims of the proc as well meaning the mob was running around to attack people and constantly turning away from the main tank, which often meant i was tanking and agroing on healers and casters that though they were our of range etc. the perfered method now is pinning him against the wall and having pets attacking from the other side of the wall which protects them from the aoe and have seen zero trouble with mt keeping agro the whole time even during and right after fd aoe.

[Felidae]

I think, while it has strategic value, the issue is that the MT is trying to deal with a sticky situation and wants to cotrol the situation if possible.  Basically they don't want interferance.  MT's are usually see as the largely responsible for initially positioning the mob and they have methods to do it, and someone elses pet,  which they aren't managing, jumping in uninvited,  adds risk in their mind.  

If you and your MT have discussed it and planned it out then its all good. But sicking your pet uninvited on a mob that an MT is trying to wrangle seems rather rude.

[Rhugan]

I think, while it has strategic value, the issue is that the MT is trying to deal with a sticky situation and wants to cotrol the situation if possible.  Basically they don't want interferance.

I agree with this 100%.  I would also like to to say that although your strategy is sound it is not what was requested of you to do.  Your guild had a plan that, in thier eyes, you didnt follow.  There may have been any number of reasons why they only wanted the MT on the mob.  In my guild if you have a suggestion as to how something could be improved you discuss it with a officer prior to trying it.  Not following orders during a raid is always frowned apon and a repremand is usually administered.  I think you possibly made it harder for people to accept this strategy because of how you chose to impliment it.

In my old guild we messed around with the idea of BST pets being the RT on certain SSRA mobs.  Some people said it wouldnt work but we discussed it in the forums and eventually we tried it after we (the bst's) explained the benifit.  It worked great but had I just sent my pet in while they were setting up the ramp list I would have been yelled for sure and possibly worse because they had an establish proceedure and I would not have been following it.


Good idea but bad implimentation on your part.

[Sempai]

It takes time to change the way a guild thinks about pets, so just hang in there. Your description of what a pet can do for your raid is correct, and is in fact needed later in the game. With pet aggro being so high, if the MT taunt works, he should go to the top of the hate list +1, which should put him higher on the list than everyone else, which is exactly what they should want.

There are times now when clerics send ME tells asking if I want Virtue for my pet and spot healers are even covering my pet on certain encounters. I almost passed out the first time those things happened.

[bugman]

just for further clarification, as i stated, the mob was positioned and there was zero reason for the mt to suddenly try to change positions after struggling to get it in that right position.

as well im not talking about my guilds rules and wether what i did was wrong according to them, yes its true i sent my pet when i wasnt asked to, and got yelled at for it, though i recall most of the blahblahing to be done by the same several people that constantly use all caps in raidchat to say things like "SHRINK YOUR WARDER!!!!11" (when ofcourse is shrunk but still a fatass) sometimes even mid fight and like every raid so you can take that in consideration as to the people that felt it wasnt right as i got no tell from any officer about the incident.

i was simply asking about the mechanics of pet agro on raids and wether pet agro has positive functions, as i suspected in this case it might have... as the title indicates. me being breaking guild raid procedures because i sent my pet has nothing to do with my question and the discussion i hoped for, thanks for your judgement but i think ill let the officers of my guild keep that job for now.

[Aggy]

Chill, Bug...you can't come in here and describe your problem like that and then expect people to not make comments on the pros and cons of what you did.

People DID answer your question, and validated your approach as a viable tactic...and then suggested that you should COMMUNICATE with your guild about the strategy BEFORE you implement it on your own.

If all you wanted was for the BLs here to pat you on the back and say "that's what I would have done!" then you didn't get what you were looking for...  but if you really came here asking if you had a valid point/tactic, then I think people DID answer your question.

[Aggy]

Chill, Bug...you can't come in here and describe your problem like that and then expect people to not make comments on the pros and cons of what you did.

People DID answer your question, and validated your approach as a viable tactic...and then suggested that you should COMMUNICATE with your guild about the strategy BEFORE you implement it on your own.

If all you wanted was for the BLs here to pat you on the back and say "that's what I would have done!" then you didn't get what you were looking for...  but if you really came here asking if you had a valid point/tactic, then I think people DID answer your question.

[bugman]

i really dont think my post is warrenting of a request to "chill".  i asked about pet agro how it works on raid and how several people in my guild including several tanks said it didnt work how i suspected it worked and so i came here to clarify, wether me being right or wrong, how pet agro works and if its usefull in raid situations.

omg inc flamage!!! my guild procedures and wether or not i broke them really has nothing to do with my question. and yes i gave information about the situation to paint a clear picture of how when why and what i did. but again it was all related to my questions about pet agro on raids, as the title and general theme of my post indicates.

and by the way i find using CAPITALS to try to make YOUR point about how *I* need to CHILL is pretty RUDE and EXACTLY what im talking about. (see how rude that became with the use of capital letters?)

i appreciate the responses about pet agro on raids and even how it can be a huge help in certain situations, but no i dont appreciate the people that choose to point out the mistakes of my actions (except the people that talked directly how to approach pet agro as a raid strat, as again thats dealing in pet agro).

pet agro on raids in my book does not equal point out how im screwed up.

yes im somewhat annoyed, but think its justifiable. i mean its like the one guys post about pet pulling singles in ldon and some people just HAVE to post (see again with the caps, notice how it suddenly becomes pretty rude) that the person should just leave that group cuz its shit. well obviously this isnt happening atm and imo advice to the person on his choice of groups and wether he should stay or not wasnt warrented, as thats not what he asked, this is especially annoying if the poster doesnt even respond to the question and just seems to be being nosey.

but you're right, post on a public message board you're asking for direct personal responses even if they have nothing to do with your question... these message boards are worse then a sewing circle~

see my point, i post about pet agro on raids, some people respond constructively, i repost about more pet agro on raids, some people respond not so constructively, i get a case of the ass and respond to their personal comments and now this thread is officially derailed, from what could have been a very informative post.

[bugman]

oh and your comments Aggy i find boarderline flaming. so it wasnt enough to tell me to chill that i should expect varios responses but then you go on to suggest i came here for personal validation and a pat on the back. i mean c'mon lets not get personal as we've seen it always goes downhill from there.