Recent Fero Parses

[Inphared]

I had a rather long chat with one of them, and it was more along the lines of enlightening, although I'm not entirely sure how much of the benefit it gives. Here's what was discussed.

Rogues obviously backstab. They can also double and tripple backstab. He said that the amount of times they perform double/tripples is based off of how much attack they have.

I obviously didn't think much of this at first, because I figured the attack softcap came into play.

He told me it didn't. Which makes sense, because rogues would probably be trippling a lot less than I've seen, and thus wouldn't be some of the sick DPS that they are.

So now I'm really interested in rolling around the next beta. I want to see how well this holds water. I haven't seen a Rogue parse with backstab around here, so I can't really say that I was entirely accurate, but I can't say that they are either.

He was very pleasant about the whole thing, so I was inclined to believe him.

We'll see.

[Sikkem]

I had a rather long chat with one of them, and it was more along the lines of enlightening, although I'm not entirely sure how much of the benefit it gives. Here's what was discussed.

Rogues obviously backstab. They can also double and tripple backstab. He said that the amount of times they perform double/tripples is based off of how much attack they have.

I obviously didn't think much of this at first, because I figured the attack softcap came into play.

He told me it didn't. Which makes sense, because rogues would probably be trippling a lot less than I've seen, and thus wouldn't be some of the sick DPS that they are.

So now I'm really interested in rolling around the next beta. I want to see how well this holds water. I haven't seen a Rogue parse with backstab around here, so I can't really say that I was entirely accurate, but I can't say that they are either.

He was very pleasant about the whole thing, so I was inclined to believe him.

We'll see.

I am not sure what to think about that... Would be nice for fero to be really usefull to rogues but I hate this SoS crap atm, if we get all 4 rogues on a raid I feel like I spend the whole night sending tells to get em to drop SoS. :x

If Attack affects double and triple backstab would it be linear to asume it would affect double and triple attack as well, or is this a seperate skill all together? If this is the case surely monk parses would have shown a greater return for fero also?

Also the fact that you actually found a rogue that was actually polite surprises me, any contact I have had outside of my guild with rogues has been unpleasant and rude. Put him on your friends list  :wink:

[Inphared]

Rogues only get double attack, but they can tripple backstab. Stuff like their 2.0 and AA's increase this chance, and since it's backstab only, it wouldn't show up in a Monk parse. That's what got me interested in it. Like I said, I haven't seen any Rogue parses before, so maybe we're missing something.

[Shamno]

Sort of strange for that being the only ability to act like that really. I am a bit skeptical really., but if it was true it should make a worlds of difference for them.

Though this is still a spell that needs some serious work, utility that increases one class in an effective manor, is not a useful skill make.

Simply put it still isn't worth having a beastlord on raids to fero your rogues when you can probably throw a bard or shaman to increase a whole group of DPS classes in a more effective manor. Though I am not askign for something nearly that strong, but fero should be an all encompassing increasing ability on Melee DPS.....not just effect one class.

[Khauruk]

If this is the case surely monk parses would have shown a greater return for fero also?

Monks with Fero 5/6 are essentially at 100% double attack, so there's no upgrades possible there.  iirc, they can quad mainhand attacks though...if it did boost the likelihood of that occuring, it must be miniscule or Wycca's parses would have shown better return on Fero.

[Tomorrow]

http://www.thesafehouse.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29743 is their links

As much as they knock you inphared for your parses,  Nowhere, i mean nowhere do  is see parses from them proving otherwise.  Ironically, while bashing your parses i see them useing your numbers (i. e. 3.5%).  On top of that i see the number 30 to 35 dps increase? 

No disrespect, however i would like to see some parses (on the rogue forums demonstrating different) other than that we are just grabbing numbers out of the air or pointless opinions.

Upon these conditions

Full raid buff + no fero .........versus Full raid buff + fero.  <-------- trust me i would like to see a huge difference and prove SoE has not let me down (again)

[Spiritclaw]

If this is the case surely monk parses would have shown a greater return for fero also?

Monks with Fero 5/6 are essentially at 100% double attack, so there's no upgrades possible there.  iirc, they can quad mainhand attacks though...if it did boost the likelihood of that occuring, it must be miniscule or Wycca's parses would have shown better return on Fero.

They are talking about our spells Ferocity, which adds ATK, not DA.  Worn Ferocity adds DA, not ATK.

[Khauruk]

They are talking about our spells Ferocity, which adds ATK, not DA.  Worn Ferocity adds DA, not ATK.

You said that if our spell Fero adds to double/triple backstab from higher attack value, and if it increases double(etc) attack in general, it should have shown higher returns from Wycca's parse.

Unless I entirely misread you...

Do you see my point now?

Monks with max AAs, and Worn Ferocity 5/6 are at ~100% double attack already, so there is no room for change in that factor of a parse.

[Spiritclaw]

They are talking about our spells Ferocity, which adds ATK, not DA.  Worn Ferocity adds DA, not ATK.

You said that if our spell Fero adds to double/triple backstab from higher attack value, and if it increases double(etc) attack in general, it should have shown higher returns from Wycca's parse.

Unless I entirely misread you...

Do you see my point now?

Monks with max AAs, and Worn Ferocity 5/6 are at ~100% double attack already, so there is no room for change in that factor of a parse.

Some rogue was saying that higher ATK gives them a better chance at double/tripple backstab, not DA itself.  This would be the only class that this buff would have any kind of impact on if true.  No other class gets any kind of DA benefit from higher ATK

[Rilelil]

They are talking about our spells Ferocity, which adds ATK, not DA.  Worn Ferocity adds DA, not ATK.

You said that if our spell Fero adds to double/triple backstab from higher attack value, and if it increases double(etc) attack in general, it should have shown higher returns from Wycca's parse.

Unless I entirely misread you...

Do you see my point now?

Monks with max AAs, and Worn Ferocity 5/6 are at ~100% double attack already, so there is no room for change in that factor of a parse.

Exactly  why i have trouble believing that  Ferocity would have a impact as high as they are stating  on there dps the parses made by Wycca would be even board for all classes  that double attack and flurry and special attacks.

Backstab is a special attack just like beserkers frenzy and monks special kicks and punches if this is true id like to see parses for it.

[Inphared]

Exactly  why i have trouble believing that  Ferocity would have a impact as high as they are stating  on there dps the parses made by Wycca would be even board for all classes  that double attack and flurry and special attacks.

Backstab is a special attack just like beserkers frenzy and monks special kicks and punches if this is true id like to see parses for it.

I don't think some of you are understanding. Here's a more detailed breakdown:

Rogues do double attack, but this is not what they're saying is increased by Fero.

Rogues backstab. (duh)

They also have the chance to double backstab. This chance is increased by how much attack they have, and through various AA's and such. They also have the chance to tripple backstab. They can only perform a tripple BS if they perform a double BS, so therefore, the higher the attack, the more Tripples.

This is why Wyyca's parses wouldn't show anything greater, because monks obviously can't backstab. We're not talking about regular double attack, we're talking about double and tripple backstabs.

[Rilelil]

my problem is its still a special attack  which is not anything more special then any of the other attacks i mentioned. All im saying is id like to see parses to back this up at the moment its just speculation and kinda odd that only one classes special attack would be increased.  when there are a few classes with a special attacks none of which reciece the same level of benefit.

[Urim]

They also have the chance to double backstab. This chance is SUPPOSEDLY increased by how much attack they have, and through various AA's and such. They also have the chance to tripple backstab. They can only perform a tripple BS if they perform a double BS, so therefore, the higher the attack, SUPPOSEDLY the more Tripples

Fixed that for you. Until they can provide detailed evidence (i.e. hours of parses) that will prove this, I claim there comments are only attempts to persuade a beastlord to waste mana casting Ferocity.

I can be just like them and claim things without evidence too. I contend that this atk benefit given to double/triple backstab is affected by the same atk cap as regular melee so therefore casting Ferocity still does next to nothing.

[Khauruk]

Rilelil made my point better than I.

First I've heard about this possibility, and I've argued over Fero w/ some of the best equipped rogues in the game.  I'd **LOVE** to see some parses, since they just sound like they're talking out of their butt.

[Inphared]

I'm still on the fence about this, but I'm leaning towards the "this is true" side, partly because I really want this buff to be worth something, and partly because there's no proof to extinguish it either. I've colaborated with a guild rogue, and over the next few weeks we'll be testing this higher-attack-more-backstab theory on several burn-type mobs. (It will include me log-diving and searching for each individual backstab, which includes the misses on doubles and tripples. Ugh)

As for the special attack thing, I'm not so certain. Monks use Clawstriker's, but that's a discipline. Berserkers use volley, and that's a Discipline. Backstab is an innate ability, so it could be different. If it turns out that this is true, then I would also expect it to show up for parses on Frenzy and Flying Kick, and even regular Kick for other classes.

I'll see what I find in three weeks.