NEW Top Ten (5/11/07)

[Maylian]

1. Raid Utility
Whilst we are solid dps now I would prefer to have some extra utility that benefits other people but not at the expense of everything else.

2. Slow / Mitigation / Solo ability
(three things all relating to another)

Slow seems to be getting phased out as it has been said it has decreasing returns every expansion, mobs are hitting harder and with the change in the con system it has affected our ability to solo. I'd love for SoE to either rework slows to be effective (would have to change the entire game mechanic) or alternatively look at how Bst mitigation works. With the new expansion AC values are going to be higher so this will affect us even more.

3. Pet Survivability
Promised mending did a huge amount to help with this, mod2's would be excellent and I liked the suggestion of hard linking these to the actual summoning boon items.

4. Fero
Generally what everyone else has said, not just an increase in mobs AC as a quick fix.

5. Perfection Line
Would like this to have at least some of the power it used to back on Xegony raids. I rarely use this anymore on raids and prefer to use MGB for SE's

6. Haste
Definitely longer duration single target or what i'd really like is a group version. Haste value doesn't need to increase, just duration.

7. Pet models
Being an iksar bst i've gone the last 3-4 years with a broken pet....wouldn't mind SoE finally getting round to fixing it up and maybe even a new model.

8. Poison nuke line
I really enjoyed getting Bite of the Empress, I expect that SoE will introduce a full line of similar poison based nukes for us. But I would like to see some more of this, especially due to its resist mod

[Jili]

1. DPS

Those claiming we are good or even ok dps now need to learn how to parse...

[Rilelil]

We are decent DPS  especially over a long fight  its not uncommon to be over 1k DPS on short fights ialso ts all how you play and the tools you put into use. Not to say that we are not falling behind some other classes lets face it we didnt get Double Attack as a skill till 71  and then it is only 5 skill points per level  where other classes get it innately at much lower levels like teens. 

[Khauruk]

1. DPS

Those claiming we are good or even ok dps now need to learn how to parse...

We'd be decent dps with more utility.  With our current level of raid utility, we're lame dps.  One needs to increase to bring us back into balance (pref. w/o breaking group/solo play).

[Perriinn]

If we are going to consolidate this post and use it to show to devs as the things we as a community want to see, I would like to reiterate a few things and get some more discussion flowing.  I really believe we should pick the "battles" that we have a chance of winning.  I am not saying I would not like to see some of the changes talked about, just that it may be counter productive to fight for those ones.  The main one everyone talks about and would be a good fit for us is Endurance Regen.  The devs have stated a few times (if I can find some of the posts later I will link to them.) that they are not going to add endurance regen.  So if we keep asking for that we will be ignored by the devs and they may overlook other ideas we have that otherwise may be implemented.  I feel the same way about asking for more then tweaking to our particular pet slow, let the "main slowing classes" be the champion for those changes they will more then likely be listened to more about it anyway, plus it leaves us out of the line of fire to step on any of those classes toes.  Mitigation is kind of the same problem, devs have said this is where we want you.  I also remember reading posts from a dev recently (once again if i can find the links I will add them) that we were informed wrong from devs that we are on the same ac softcap returns as druids.  From what I have actually heard (this I have not confirmed it though) we have a better return over softcap then rangers do and some of my guild rangers have actually been mentioning it to me a little upset cause they feel I can tank better then them.  So I would be very hesitant as approaching our mitigation as a top issue at least at this time till we have strong parses showing where we feel a change needs made. 

The one fero idea i heard lately that someone mentioned that after more thought I really like the idea is to make it like Fukiture Weave (sp?) where we cast the spell and it gives us an item with charges and then we can cast those charges on people.  My main point being if we pursue more ideas like that instead of things that have already met opposition we may get a better response.

Now to Jili, why not try being constructive instead of negative.  If there are some of us saying that our DPS has increased and it's not as bad as we once thought, try asking why we see that instead of just a one line negative post.  Also referring to what I stated in my first post,  depending on where you are in the game things may be different for you and if that is the case then that may be something else show the devs and another item we can work on getting changed but telling us we need to learn to parse will not help your issues get attention.

[Grbage]

Jili- This is in my opinion but we have got a couple decent DPS upgrades over the last few expansions and are not doing that bad. I'm not an overly geared bst since I stopped raiding at qvic level, about what is available out there today by groups. When soloing I hit 450dps before I got bite, which I just finally got the faction to buy. So now I'll have to figure out what my dps is, oh and I've never got the pet dd from DoN.

The dev saying we have a higher return over the cap then rangers is I believe wrong. During this patch message http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=96992 it was stated:
*** Player Characters ***

- The AC cap and the returns over the cap for rangers and berserkers has been slightly increased.

In the discussions after that I seem to recall a dev stating that the return over the soft cap was brought to near knight levels. I don't think bst or druids are anywhere near that.

Anyway Perriinn is right, no reason to be asking for stuff that the devs have continously said aint happening.

[Bumkus]

1.) Ferocity needs changes / improvements

2.) Muada's Mending needs to be upgraded to be able to have poison/disease/curse cures to be in line with Ranger single target heal/cure spell Potamid Salve.

3.) Raid Utility

4.) New Slow / Fix Steeltrap Jaws better than what it is

5.) Group Haste

6.) New Pet Models for all beast races, and the gator warder for trolls revamp

7.) DPS Nukes - take away our old dots, turn them into nukes like Bite of the Empress line (?)

8.) Beastlord Mitigation boost

9.) Pet Survivability issues

10.) Aura for beastlords / New SE line that has added END regen, maybe new AoS as well (?)


In no particular order this is what I've seen that seems to be most important, these aren't set in stone thou.

This is a good list.  This is also the most united I've felt in a long time.  It feels good.

Edit:  this list is a pretty good framework.  No one wants to ask for something we cant get, but it's ok to ask for something.  we need it.  remember, no one "needs" anything, but other classes have gotten, and gotten plenty.  If we fall further behind it's our fault for not asking, not the devs

[Perriinn]

Ok here was the statement then the dev response.

  "Yes bsts are on the same mitigation at druids, but we tank better than druids because of other skills. The AC cap is around 1800 or so, best can tell."

Ghost - of Maddoc's response

    No, they are not.

Beastlords have a both a higher soft-cap and a higher soft-cap multiplier -- I don't have time to explain the whole system right now, but suffice to say, beastlords are definitely better in that respect.

You can find the post here: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?topic_id=109796

There was a bunch of info in the post and I would have to re-read it to comment on more.

[Caave Monster]

The compiled list Mewzee put up is a good start. And I know she said in no particular order, but for the sake of order it would be nice to see the first 5 along these lines as I feel they are the ones that need work the most:

1. Raid Utility
2. Ferocity
3. Pet Survivability
4. Cures
5. DPS/Nukes

The rest, I'm not even sure need an order really. New pet models aren't an issue as a class, as it has nothing to do with our role as a class. Mitigation is something they don't want to touch, and is mainly wishful thinking to me. The only thing I can see for slow is a direct upgrade, as in a resist check change up from -30. It's obvious they don't want to give us a debuff and I wouldn't want them to anyways. Group haste would be great, and as much as I'd like to think it's a possibility.. it most likely won't be. It deserves to be on the list though, somewhere, but not in the top 5. Perriinn is right, we need to pick battles we think we have a chance at. The list right there I believe there is a chance at, some things they'd be willing to take a look at atleast.

About the cure/heal. Minohten is our heal and shouldn't be touched, but a new spell should be added similar to potameid. Rangers get two spells - Sunderock Springwater and Potameid Salve, two different lines.

As for the DPS issue, and somewhat of a response to Jili. Our DPS isn't in bad shape, and I think the one thing they could do it help it a bit would be double attack. With upgrades such as the werewolves, things are better. As it is, I consider us very lucky to be paired with monks, which gives us access to better weapons (non-lore h2h). Don't go saying we can't do DPS though, it's very negative and actually far from the truth. I usually parse in the 1000-1500 range and on some burns, I have come in close to 1700 (4-5min range).  It's all about how our tools are used and in a smart order. I use 2.5 and Warfists, nothing high-end TSS really and I can pull through well enough. This is an issue I don't believe they will touch, but will upgrade upon with the werewolf line, growl line, etc. when new expansions come along. Honestly though, I think they know what the beastlord can do and know we are capable of DPS in line with rangers (which is where I think they want us, 1-1.5k range), even though it is not as easy as a ranger does it. Our DPS is split up so much that even discarding one area will give you the illusion that beastlord DPS is in bad shape.

[Jkal_Shihar]

I havent really gone over this list yet. I use to keep up with tast on it but this is more or less directed at Jili. Im too lazy to look through your posts to see what lvl you are or what aa's you currently have.

Me, I have rake, feral swipe, DoD pet (still working on Katta faction for new one). My atk buffed is usually over 2k. It is not uncommon for me to do a 2k hit with feral or 1k hits with rake.

I do parse and come close to what some of the other bsties get. So dps isnt a issue unless you are below the level. Like I said I'm too lazy to look to see if you ever posted your level before.

Post a mag if ya can, I'm bad for not keeping mine up to date (dont feel like paying for the services anyways), maybe we can help out to make ya better.

[Khauruk]

I havent really gone over this list yet. I use to keep up with tast on it but this is more or less directed at Jili. Im too lazy to look through your posts to see what lvl you are or what aa's you currently have.

Me, I have rake, feral swipe, DoD pet (still working on Katta faction for new one). My atk buffed is usually over 2k. It is not uncommon for me to do a 2k hit with feral or 1k hits with rake.

I do parse and come close to what some of the other bsties get. So dps isnt a issue unless you are below the level. Like I said I'm too lazy to look to see if you ever posted your level before.

Post a mag if ya can, I'm bad for not keeping mine up to date (dont feel like paying for the services anyways), maybe we can help out to make ya better.

A rogue/zerker/wizard can do huge dps figures, absolutely dwarfing ours at any level of raiding.  They bring no less utility to a raid  (I'd say all are more useful than a beastlord...at least more useful than a second beastlord).

Jili's also 10x better geared than you are, fyi.  You have a long ways to go before you max out group gear, Jili's in at least Deathknell gear.

[jitathab]

Zerk geared with epic 2.0 not much of any other effects and mods, 300 AA DPS around 1700
BST epic 2, 3/4 maxed mods 1500 AA, DPS around 1200

The zerk will improve hugely the bst will not.

The zerk will add huge raid DPS with war cry and aura, the bst will not.

Neither class can shed agro.

Why is our DPS so low in raid environment when we get beaten by such a significant amount. Our raid utility is so called paragon every 72 mins, which has depreciated in usefullness on every expansion since it got released.

due to our lack of raid utility our dps IS severly lacking.

[Jkal_Shihar]

Khauruk please dont rip me apart me apart because I asked Jili a simple question. I have no clue what there level is, what gear there wearing so for you to come at me like that is uncalled for.

I was being polite in that I do raid, I agree with the majority here on our dps. Its the way Jili came in with that one line that pretty much upsetted alot of us.

[Khauruk]

Khauruk please dont rip me apart me apart because I asked Jili a simple question.

I was being polite in that I do raid, I agree with the majority here on our dps. Its the way Jili came in with that one line that pretty much upsetted alot of us.

That wasn't me being rude, or ripping you apart.  They were simple statements of fact (though HP-wise, I guess 4-5x would be more accurate, though w/ mods, I stand by 10x).  They may have ripped apart your assertion, but not you yourself.

As far as you raiding, your magelo only shows one raid acquired item that I noticed...I'd assume that was from a pick-up raid.  Having raided a couple months in Anguish-ish content (assuming you got Yarusha on rot from an early raid), I wouldn't call you an experienced raider.

However, lines like........

I havent really gone over this list yet.

Im too lazy to look through your posts to see what lvl you are or what aa's you currently have.

I do parse and come close to what some of the other bsties get. So dps isnt a issue unless you are below the level. Like I said I'm too lazy.....

.....make me fairly unsympathetic to your views (keyword: lazy).

Jili and most of the people here aren't concerned with Beastlord dps as a top-10 list issue simply in relation to overall beastlord dps.  It's going to be in relation to other classes.

It is not uncommon for me to do a 2k hit with feral or 1k hits with rake.

a 'not uncommon' 2k hit or 1k rake is not 'good dps' in itself...rake plus jagged claws comes out to about 90dps (which doesn't scale with gear/progression).  At the group level which you seem to be at, that is a fairly large amount.  But, when toons are parsing up to **3,000** dps in short burn fights and we're unable to come anywhere near that, 90dps doesn't add up to much.

As far as my version of our top-10, I'm PMing that directly to developers/other class CCs.

I repeat - that wasn't me being rude.  Just factual.  And not too "lazy" to do a quick glance through jili's previous posts to see his/her progression level (dp/dk as of last fall, btw).

[Jkal_Shihar]

Like I stated before, I was to lazy to bother to look. It was early in the morning and like most mornings I was waiting on my daughter to get ready for school so I hopped on here to see what was cooking.

As for my mag, I dont believe in updating it on a day to day basis. I have a few things I have gotten from raids along with doing anguish on a weekly basis.

Ive taken more leave of absense from the game then anyone I can think of only because of burn out. So whether stating by fact or not and I really hate when I'm just a post above that it has to be broken up into another post by quoting I find really irrating.

And if you reread that first one I posted you will see that I said I am bad for not keeping my mag up to date  :-D