NEW Top Ten (5/11/07)

[Jili]

To Jkal. I am a 75 bst with Mostly TSS + DP/DK gear and 1700ish + AA. If you do a search on AB server you should find my magelo under Jililuokta (My full name). It is not up to date though, now I have Letharhammer and some other upgrades from TSS in addition.

Bst dps may be ok for grouping but during raids we are very bad off compared to the real dps classes. We are not the only class with this problem though, I rarely get beat in dps from any of our two rangers. And mages seem to parse a bit low as well.

The problem is really that there is a way to big gap between the top 3 (berserker, rogue and wizard) and the rest of the raid.

Will let you know some of the parseresults from both a 3-4 min fight, and a 10-15 min one.
The % in the back is my damage compared to top parsing dps class. (These are fights where I can use my warder + pets, and they are added to my damage)

290407 Veldyns shade, 3:53 fight. Top Zerker deals 595947 damage as I do 325887. (55%)
040407 Veldyns shade, 3:15 fight. Top Zerker deals 534006 damage as I do 207315. (38%)
060507 Veldyns shade, 3,58 fight. Top Zerker deals 535859 damage as I do 296812. (55%)

040407 Lethar 2.0, 12:57 fight. Top Rogue deals 1068006 damage as I do 708353. (66%)
100407 Lethar 2.0, 14:27 fight. Top Rogue deals 1102288 damage as I do 696938. (63%)
060507 Lethar 2.0, 11.45 fight. Top Rogue deals 1052261 damage as I do 632167. (60%)

We have 2 Zerkers, 6 Rogues, 5 Wizards, and 3 monks that regularly beat me in dps during raids that puts me low down the dps list.

Comparing the dps-utility from the top 3 dps classes to the utility of SE + Paragon + low dps, I see no room for a Beastlord in a highend guild. I think I would rather get an extra dps class in the raid and kick all Bsts. (Especially thinking of the dps oriented Solteris)

The reason we fall behind every expansion is our multifaceted ways of dealing damage. A 10% upgrade in nuke focus helps a wizard more then us. A better ratio on weapons will help a Rogue/Zerker more then us. DPS AA's will help the pure classes more then us.
Giving us some non scaling disc (Rake) or a nonscaling pet helps a tad for that expansion, but we still fall behind every expansion and has done so since PoP.

Some may think that doing 50-65% of top damage is not that bad. But then all three classes have more utility then we have.

/Jililuokta, 75 beastlord from Antonious Bayle server.

[Kdor]

I would like to see aos have an end regen component.
or
Give beastslords and aura to increase end regen
or
Give beastlords an aura that makes those affected non kos to animals
or
Give beastlords an aura or two that affects all pets in a certain radius.

I would like to see us be able to have our warder /shield a particular target

I would like to see us get some improved cures.

I actually hated them giving us the poison nuke in tbs. I liked to think only having the cold nuke line was somewhat class defining.

Customizing our warders would be nice. (not practical at all but fun none the less)
Name, color, maybe give them some armor appearance if they have a muzzle on or something.

Change the Dog whistle to call all barbarian warders in the zone to you (just kidding)

I am fairly content with the beastlord class as a whole.

Kdor Unhcegila of Valorguard
The Nameless

[laissez]

Jili i have a question.  Are the bers rogs put in dps type groups?  And are you put in dps type groups?  And lastly are you parseing yourself?  Why i ask is b/c more than likely the bers and rogs are in dps groups and you aren't.  The thing ive found that putting a bst in a dps group helps our dps far far more than any other class.  And if you aren't parseing yourself you'll be missing your pets procs, i know its small in comparisen but its there.  Of course i could be totally off and your parses are totally accurate.

[Tomorrow]

I am in agreement with Jili on dps.  Because of our links to many other classes it will be difficult to improve beastlords without having the other classes get it first.

1.) Ferocity needs changes / improvements.  In the past i would have agreed on this, however through time i find that improving this spell starts with a gamewide fix that will involve lots of work for the devs and most likely will not happen or if so will only be bandaids on new expansions.  In the last stratics chat even the devs admitted it was a lackluster spell.  To even get a group version of this, i really hope it does not take away from something else we could really use.

<Brannoc> *Kernos* Any hope of a group version of the beastlord ferocity spell and any plans to make it useful again?
<Prathun> Because of the diminishing returns on offense, and the fact that most other melee increase effects are capped, don't work for all classes, or don't stack, it is difficult to improve upon Ferocity (or similar spells).
<Prathun> I can look into introducing a group version of previously single target spells, as I did with the beastlord mini-focus in Serpent's Spine.

so great they are going to give us a group version of fero that does very little =(.  I would not suggest pushing this as even a #1 issue.

2.) Need more raid utility other than SE/MGB AoS  --------DPS is raid utility btw---------- and imho should be #1, #2, #3 and so on

3.) Pet DPS/Mitigation of dmg/buffs -
Lets face it there is no real way to easily fix this.  If we were to get a pet that would be able to survive raid mobs, It would be game breaking for groups.  Pet would most likely be overpowered and heavily exploited.

4.) New Slow?  In order for us to get a new slow most likely improvements must be given to Shammys/Enchanters.  We are not going to get a 75% or even a 70% slow.  At best we will get a 65% slow that will be less resisted.

5.) Group Haste ... This here is more a less a convenience spell, but not really needed

6.) New Pet Models for all beast races, and the gator warder for trolls revamp----- how would this make beastlords better?

7) Cures--We are long overdue for some form of cure.

If i had to reanalyze the list i would make it look like this

1)  Raid utility through ---DPS----
2)  Group utility through ----DPS-----
3)  Keep our slows the same, just give us more ----DPS----- so we can kill them faster
4)  Keep our pet dps same just give us more -----DPS------ since half the time they are either dead or not useful in raids due to liability and even if our pet dies, at least we can still output decent dmg so who cares bout pet mitigation.
5)  Cures, group haste nice to have however Immunization X (potion) and Antidote X (potion) and Celerity X (potion) can all do about the same.  I would hate to lose a valid upgrade to anything i can buy at the bazaar and honestly, i would rather click from my belt than waste a spell gem.
6)  As for pet name change, pet color change, (note: with exception to iksar pets who does have a valid need for a fix), Pet make-up etc. etc.  .....Again i would hate to give up a serious upgrade for something like this.

[Dasquid]

1) Pet mitigation

2) longer lasting haste

3)Better DPS, I'd like to see us have innate double attack with AA giving a chance to triple attack, may not be in the cards, but /shrug, I dont use a warder 95% of the time on raids so maybe a "reclaim energy" type spell like mages have, we draw power from our pet, it banishes/kills the warder but we gain strength from it.

4)Cures-would help,especially when there arent alot of Shammys on

5)Better nukes, I like Bite alot, but the rest, especially in a raid setting arent much damage at all.

6)set duration invis, I posted in the rants forum about this recently, its stupid for us NOT to have this.

7) I'd like for us to have a clicky aura like almost all other classes got, not a huge deal but it would be nice.

8)Mitigation for us, the devs apparently think we are where we should be, I hope thats not the case, our mitigation for a melee class is poor to say the least.

I think one problem is that in an exp group, a Bst is good to have, able to do a little of everything, so alot of people think that carries over to raiding. The fact that they have chats with the devs and people bring up fero changes strikes me as strange. I think we as a class have MUCH more important issues that need attention than the buff that I only cast on rogues.

[Jili]

To Iaissez

Yes the Zerker and Rogues parsing top damage are in dps groups with Zerker/Bard/Rog/Monk most of the time I would guess. I normally have a Shaman in group that keeps Champ + Panther going. Asked to have a bard in group for testing last Shade but didnt improve much dps wise (There was no Shaman availible that fight).
Will ask RL to put me with Shaman/Bard/Zerker/Rouge/Monk next time to see if anything improves but I doubt it will change much.

[Epee]

WTB  Fero as an aura so we get put in dps grp's.   Thanks to the serverwide channel for this.  was not my idea

[Khauruk]

Fero + haste aura is already coded in the spell file (don't recall name) from TSS beta.  Very nice, easily accomplished, would solve our haste request.  Even though fero returns are teh sukc right now, it would be at least mana/thought/hassle free for a group.

Oh well...hasn't been 'found.' /sigh.

[Inphared]

I wouldn't think we would get a haste aura, because bards already have something like that (Is it overhaste?) and we're not really the best in that department. Fero on an aura, however, would be a lot better than what it is now, even if the returns are shabby. It saves us mana, it uses the buff, and it most likely gets us into the DPS groups where we can do a lot more benefit than without one.

I think the idea is worth pushing. The only drawbacks I see are other classes complaining about getting an aura as well, or the devs cry havoc that the buff in aura form is too overpowering.

And I think the idea of Fero as an aura came from Xacer or Lenoth in the serverwide channel. I'm not sure which, it may have been both, but that's where the credit should be directed.

[Sikkem]

Fero + haste aura is already coded in the spell file (don't recall name) from TSS beta.  Very nice, easily accomplished, would solve our haste request.  Even though fero returns are teh sukc right now, it would be at least mana/thought/hassle free for a group.

Oh well...hasn't been 'found.' /sigh.

That is one of the campfires or flags from TBS isnt it? I remember a few asking for it last beta when we had really useless spells but getting no feedback on the matter.

I think Swampfunk raised it at the last Dev Chat also but dont think he got any sort of response.

[Rilelil]

It is a Banner focus and a campfire focus so the coding is there  for it I think this would definitly make us wanted in alot of situations for a dps group on raids.

[Hanelce]

It is a Banner focus and a campfire focus so the coding is there  for it I think this would definitly make us wanted in alot of situations for a dps group on raids.

The banner / campfire fero, is an increase to double attack, not the fero spell we get.

It's an interesting idea, if they add our fero + a dmg modifier to the aura, it would be pretty nice.

[Epee]

If the dont add anything and make fero 250ish atk with some sta and saves and make it an aura, I think this is a HUGE fix for us.   
Not only will we get into dps grp's to make our dps stronger, we will have a raid utility that we currently lack.

[jitathab]

Regular resists have lost thier value with many mobs having -500 + modifiers
250 ATK will still not add much dps, especially to those sitting at 2500
62 sta over cap would have to stack with shammy and other stuff, but wouldnt add much hp.

Exactly why would this be a huge fix and add any utility at all?

If you had said give an aura that makes pets immune to AE rampage, now that would be huge and a worthwhile raid utility. That ability actually scales.

[Sikkem]

The banner / campfire fero, is an increase to double attack, not the fero spell we get.

It's an interesting idea, if they add our fero + a dmg modifier to the aura, it would be pretty nice.

No the fero + haste aura he was referring to gave haste and attk http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=9018&source=Live was the one discussed in TBS beta.