Ferocity

Sikkem · August 07, 2007, 02:58:00 AM

Quote from: Khauruk on August 07, 2007, 01:49:04 AM
I think that what they're getting at w/ the aura for raids is a dps group support slot.

The usual 'best' dps group makeup is
Bard
Shaman
Zerker
Monk
2 x zerker/rogue

Bards are obviously in short supply, so they're hoping to take that slot, I assume. So, imo, this would make us a second fiddle type dps group supporter. We sure can't replace shamans, as we are woefully inadequate to fill a group healing role in comparison.

In a group setting, aura Ferocity would be great. Raids however...I think it'll end up seriously lackluster.

And can somebody please explain to me why in the heck anybody would want Combat Effects on Ferocity /boggle! I have listed several of the many reasons why it's a horrible choice, which nobody has countered, and for the life of me can't think of a single reason that a Zerker/Rogue/Monk would possibly want it (and several reasons why they wouldn't).

Thanks Khauruk, with the bards in short supply statement I can kinda see where they are coming from. Although once again we are putting a stumbling block in our own path. What happens when more bards are in supply? or for those of us that have ample bards?

Our normal dps group is Shaman, Bard and 4 rogues because we have no zerkers and haven't for a while. Usually 2 or 3 active bards (and lets be honest with melody bards are the easiest class to bot for a dps group) and except for some overlapping periods, for pretty much the last 3 years 1 beastlord. Considering for periods over the last 3 years we have been the number 2 guild on our server I would assume berserkers and beastlords are in much shorter supply then bards.

My point is this every guild is different and as someone else pointed out on another post everyone plays there beastlord different and sees the beastlord class different. Lets not paint ourselves into a corner.

Mewzee · August 07, 2007, 06:52:13 AM

My guild is currently #1 on the server, and we only have 2 beastlords at raids at all times or just one. (and i'm one of them lol).

I didn't get a chance to vote :(....I've been away...but am reading and catching up...

I would have voted for the Aura or for a new spell line to be created, because I've had this line for a long time...I like seeing my resists high because not all of them are maxed with gear and sometimes I miss out on buffs ect..

The one thing I'd have to request if the line were scrapped would be..just not to erase the spell line. Leave it be and just don't upgrade the line, nor touch it at all. That way beastlords who still use the spell for whatever reason can use it as they wish. And at the same time a new Aura or Line can be introduced to hopefully help mend past wounds...

If we were to get an Aura I would prefer Spell Shield+Accuracy+Corrupt Resist...that would be something unquie I think..

Sikkem · August 07, 2007, 07:07:04 AM

Quote from: Mewzee on August 07, 2007, 06:52:13 AM
My guild is currently #1 on the server, and we only have 2 beastlords at raids at all times or just one. (and i'm one of them lol).

We should share beastlords then we could have 2 at raids :evil:

stormeye · August 07, 2007, 08:51:35 PM

ok lets look at what fero does or should say was intended to do. A long recast spell with a small duration that is offensive(+attack) defen(+resist) and a hp buff(+stam) IMO the best way to have this spell changed is to keep it in line with what it is meant to do.I also think we will have an easier time with the devs granting us this if we keep this in mind. Based on what this spell was meant for I propose the the hp part be changed to raw hp or stam over cap.The +resist easy fix IMO spell shield.As for offensive this is were the crowd goes wild. We seem as a whole not able to come to an idea we all (or most) agree on.In fact i would say this is the most hotly debated part of this spell line.Some say CE as other say CE is to much agro (news flash you are talking about increasing dps that in itself will increase agro)Also seen acc ,dbl attack,triple attack,proc buff and more that I cannot recall atm.I have listed some of my idea for changes as have others and I mirror some of what has already been said,but here is an idea for you since we are talking about a spell with 3 differant componets instead of having one poll asking how would you change it.Let us have 3 so each part of this spell can be fully looked at and we can see were we stand as a group.Were we agree were we disagree and how best to compromise.So we can get this spell line reworked and make it worth cast again instead of setting in our spell books taking up space

Khauruk · August 07, 2007, 09:02:37 PM

Quote from: stormeye on August 07, 2007, 08:51:35 PM
(news flash you are talking about increasing dps that in itself will increase agro)

Actually, that's not necessarily true. Increased accuracy does not add any additional agro (because it adds no additional swings). Critical hits/nukes generate no additional agro either. Attack adds no additional agro, because it simply modifies the size of the hit.

How to know how much agro your weapons are creating:

Damage number + damage bonus.

So, for example, my mainhand weapon is the Shyra claws (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=83501). Every time I swing that weapon (misses are counted too!), I generate (34 + 16 =) 50 hate. Minimum hit, 50 hate. 27k critical...50 hate.

stormeye · August 07, 2007, 09:12:31 PM

I will admit i know little of how agro is generated and was working on assumptions of my own.Such as i did think amount of damage dealt was more of a factor then what is being told to me. If you happen to know were i might find information regarding this please let me know so that I may become more informed.

Khauruk · August 07, 2007, 09:18:15 PM

thesteelwarrior.org (warrior class forums) - lots of good discussion on that site regarding all sorts of game mechanics. I can't point you to a specific post, but between browsing and searching, there's all sorts of goodies.

stormeye · August 07, 2007, 09:23:24 PM

Thank you.Never been to the warrior class forums (have heard alot about it)Tend to stick to the class forums of the class i love :) Also if thats the only flaw to be found in my post then I a happy bst lol

Khauruk · August 07, 2007, 09:35:59 PM

Well...if you really want me to pick it apart....paragraphs sure would be nice! :)

As far as the resists...I've heard that they're going to try and revamp the resists in time for SoF again. So...+65 to all may mean something. If not, my suggestion to Prathun was 3/4/5% SS and Dot shielding (rk. I - III), subject to the worn cap. That would be sufficient to make this buff worth casting on poorly geared/low SS/DotShielding toons in raids as a defensive measure.

I oppose anything that gives a person a chance to resist detrimental spells because in a group healing situation (general raid situation), one person who resists a spell does not reduce the healing load at all. The other 5 still need full heals, so a group heal is cast. If the buff adds ss/dot shielding to an undergeared toon, that can smooth out the amount of healing required for the group, as it could make additional patch heals unnecessary in many instances.

Stat/Hp - I care least about this part of the buff, and am inclined to not whine even if it stays the same.

Offense - I've probably made my view known on this point sufficiently by this time :P

dainfrol · August 07, 2007, 09:43:35 PM

QuoteI oppose anything that gives a person a chance to resist detrimental spells because in a group healing situation (general raid situation), one person who resists a spell does not reduce the healing load at all. The other 5 still need full heals, so a group heal is cast. If the buff adds ss/dot shielding to an undergeared toon, that can smooth out the amount of healing required for the group, as it could make additional patch heals unnecessary in many instances.

Even if it is in an aura?

Khauruk · August 07, 2007, 09:56:06 PM

I don't care what form it takes...cast single, group, or aura.

Example:
6 people in group. 5k AE DD hits. Group healer heals 5k worth of damage. 5k AE DD hits again, one person resists. Group healer still has to heal 5k worth of damage, regardless of the one person who resisted.

That's why I don't like it. It doesn't help the healers out, which is how I view the defensive side of the game.

stormeye · August 07, 2007, 09:59:53 PM

paragraphs bah who needs em hehehe. Agreed if resists arr revamped then that part could stay as is.

HP-I for one cant think of one time I have ever said I have to many.Also as it may not be important to you but it is part of the spell and I dare say there are some that would like to see that part reworked.

Offense-yep your against CE hehe. The main prob we have on this still stands not many agree how to fix this part

Aura-IMO this poll shows we want an aura and think it has nothing to do with fero other than hmm maybe we can slid in a aura since the spell is busted

Khauruk · August 07, 2007, 10:30:55 PM

Quote from: stormeye on August 07, 2007, 09:59:53 PM
paragraphs bah who needs em hehehe. Agreed if resists arr revamped then that part could stay as is.
We do! :)
HP-I for one cant think of one time I have ever said I have to many.Also as it may not be important to you but it is part of the spell and I dare say there are some that would like to see that part reworked.
I certainly have never had too many....but, I doubt we'd get enough HPs to make a large difference....and I would trade in HP for a better defensive portion....damage avoided > damage healed. I focus my thoughts elsewhere, though I would gladly take any extra raw HPs.
Offense-yep your against CE hehe. The main prob we have on this still stands not many agree how to fix this part

Aura-IMO this poll shows we want an aura and think it has nothing to do with fero other than hmm maybe we can slid in a aura since the spell is busted

stormeye · August 07, 2007, 10:51:01 PM

and I would trade in HP for a better defensive portion....damage avoided > damage healed........... I cant argue that as I agree,but also keep in mind that when they revamp this spell line I dont see them giving us anything better than a few hp.As thats what it was intended to do in the first place.

We need to balance what we expect vs. what we honeslty think they are willing to give us

Grbage · August 08, 2007, 02:16:49 PM

Quote from: Khauruk on August 07, 2007, 09:02:37 PM
Quote from: stormeye on August 07, 2007, 08:51:35 PM
(news flash you are talking about increasing dps that in itself will increase agro)

Actually, that's not necessarily true. Increased accuracy does not add any additional agro (because it adds no additional swings). Critical hits/nukes generate no additional agro either. Attack adds no additional agro, because it simply modifies the size of the hit.

How to know how much agro your weapons are creating:

Damage number + damage bonus.

So, for example, my mainhand weapon is the Shyra claws (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=83501). Every time I swing that weapon (misses are counted too!), I generate (34 + 16 =) 50 hate. Minimum hit, 50 hate. 27k critical...50 hate.

Just wanted to add to this post a bit. Agro is based off of two main factors when it comes to weapons.

1. Potential damage done per swing as, Khauruk pointed out above. Because of this a miss is as good as a hit with this formula.

2. Weapon delay. Since agro is based off of the potential damage done per swing, fast swinging weapons create a lot of agro. Beasts usually end up with fast swinging weapons which is why we tend to create agro out of proportion to the damage we actually deal.