The List

[Humlaine]

Ok, time for a list to be made, I want any and all idea's you've had with improving out current spells,and future works, improvements like changing our single target haste into a group haste, those type of things. This is a anything goes type of thread, I will weed through here as its posted on and make a compiled list for everyone to see at the top

[Blarp]

1) Gruop Fero  ***

2) Gruop Haste

3) More Poi Base nukes***

4) single target Panther or Self/pet lower one say 175-225 dd ***

5)Self only DS? Good for soloing maybe

think *** are ones that need to be looked at the most


this is just my 2 CP but i think it would be nice

[Kope]

several (3-5) situational (meaning each has a different effect) MGBable spells or discs that could get either chained or stacked and would help raids.

some thoughts on a specifics
- make them only MGBable so they dont over power in grps?
- effects could be things like: endurance only regen (not tied to para)   large AC boost for raid? over damage or overstat (beyond shammy stuff)? super over haste?...new effects no one has yet ex: raid wide de aggro that adds hate to your targeted player, meaning you focus raids hate into MT....or RT... etc  (the effects listed are off the top of my head and just an example)

Bottom line I was thinking of is our class would become the raid utility class much as we are a grp utility class by the raid leader being able to pick and choose what to chain or stack depending on the fight.  I really think this could be a cool role and make us needed on raids.

[Khauruk]

*Mob attack is finally increasing - I think an upgrade for our cripple line is due.  Fast cast like newer slows, less than current enc/shammy cripples.
Enc 71 cripple, Fractured Conciousness
1:     Decrease DEX by 106
2:    Decrease AGI by 106
3:    Decrease STR by 106
4:    Decrease AC by 40
5:    Decrease Dual Wield by 1%

Crippling Spasm, Shammy 66
1:     Decrease DEX by 100
2:    Decrease AGI by 100
3:    Decrease STR by 100
4:    Decrease AC by 39

Incapacitate, BST 56
2:     Decrease AGI by 45 (L40) to 55 (L50)
3:    Decrease STR by 45 (L40) to 55 (L50)
4:    Decrease AC by 21 (L40) to 24 (L50)

Potential BST Cripple Upgrade lvl76
1:     Decrease DEX by 80
2:    Decrease AGI by 80
3:    Decrease STR by 80
4:    Decrease AC by 30
(Need to try and get Dex in there)

*Haste - Newer haste spell, Base Duration 35 minutes, no more than 5 second cast time.  Increase ATK by 50.  Group or single /shrug.

*Nukes -
     Cold - give us a cold nuke around 2.8 -3k base, slight or no efficiency upgrade from Spiked Sleet
     Poison - Upgrade to Empress 2.8-3k base, slight efficiency upgrade to Bite of the Empress

*DoTs -
     Disease - See about getting this scrapped altogether, perhaps replace w/ Panther upgrade (below)
     Poison - See about getting this changed to something along the lines of Nature's Blazing Wrath
                (~3k nuke + 800/tick/3ticks dot). Perhaps 3k nuke with 500/tick for 3 ticks.  At least
                -20 resist adjustment to match Bite of the Empress.

*Growl of the Panther upgrade - Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 23/24/25% (rk. I-III).
                Increase the  HoT to 300, and 3000HP gained.

*Disciplines -
          Defensive - I don't see us getting an upgrade to one of the best defensive discs in game w/ stupidly short reuse timer.  Not worth asking for.
          Offensive - Our dps is getting very respectable.  So, I don't see us getting a sizeable dps disc gain.  Whatever gain we do get will probably be at a high endurance cost (see monk issues in TSS beta).  So, I'm not sure we should even try to get an upgrade to Empathic Fury.  The best possibility would be a few % upgrade that's vendorable, so you don't have to kill to get people to do DoD missions to get your disc.
          Rake - Upgrade time.  Something making it about a ~60dps upgrade to current, not tied to weapons.  Toss a bone to groupers who are getting repeatedly screwed on itemization.  I see raid weapon ratios ruining any possibility of gettting an upgrade to Rake that's tied to weapon ratios.
          Proposal 1: Beastial Rage.  Same effect as Bestial Fury (Increase All Skills Dmg. Mod 100%, Min dmg 400%), for next 5 attacks, reuse 1 minute.  Does not stack with our dps discs/work w/ Rake/Ragged Claws.
          Proposal 2:  Confusing Swipe  Skill Attack (65), Hate Generated:  -1000.  This could also be tied into Rake upgrade - Rake is currently +400 hate, 3 x Skill Attack (65).  Perhaps 3 x Skill Attack (195), -1000 Hate?
I don't see us getting more than one of any two possible upgrades.


<<<<<<<
room for more additions on discs, spells, etc, once I do more research
>>>>>>>

[Humlaine]

**********EDITED**********
1. Ferosity throw it out the window, prath already said it sucks and upgrades wouldnt really be a upgrade for it, ya its a sore subject. My suggestion is this new spell line! Aura of Ferosity, +20 to Combat Effects ( over cap ), Mana Flare ( granted this isnt same as enchy buff ) deals 200 damage to your target each time you proc, This imo would solve the best of both worlds and emimnate a buff we must keep casting over and over.

2. Paragon, This is second only to Fero I think for most of the beastlords, in its current form paragon adds +125 to mana I think, and 400hp per tick, instead of having it at a set number, I suggest it goes on a scale of what the cleric epic is on, a % base, adding 10% back to a person's mana and HP, thus making it a very viable and great upgrade for a needed AA which we are known for.

3. Pet Dps, our pet dps is by far the worst, falling behind necro's and mages since they added in procs to their pets.  I suggest booting our pet dps by a meer 10%, but the pet is lacking when I use batm they our parse my pet most of the time which is a sad instance.

***********EDITED***********
4. Frenzy of spirit, add a new version of this aa, adding in overhaste for both the beastlord and pet, 5% overhaste, also causing special attack's ( IE rake or jagged claw ) to cause greatly increased damage ( 100% more ) for the next minute, wouldnt be the same but would be a great addition to our already crappy AA line.


5. A new Growl upgrade! (self buff ), Spirit of the Night, beastlord and his warder are filled with visions of past battles, causing them the chance do to 150 damage ( magic based ) proc, for the next 1 mintues 30 seconds ( note should stack with panter, and storm blade), also increasing damage by 30%, and adding 2000 hp to both the beastlord and his warder

6. a Cure all in group form, unlike rangers they arent a shaman hybrid , I think we should have the same spell but with a 5% increase and in group form, it would bring our utility back to what it once was
*** NOTE *** This one isnt likely gonna happen , but it will server as a great utility in group settings ****

***NEW***
7. NEW RAKE!!!! Infuses your body with the power of the dragon, causing you, and your warders next attack to do extra magical damage, and has a change to make your enemies to slightly forget some of their past aggression towards you. ( Warder having a 20% chance to do the magical attack )

8. Form of the Feral lord - Imbunes you with the likelyness of your warder for a prolonged period of time, greatly increase your movement speed, +15 regen, and +10% accuracy overcap, would last 30 mins at first rank, 45 / 60 mins, aa would cost 3/ 6/ 9

figured I should post some of my old idea's up here =D

[Daigyon]

List in no particular order

1) Group haste (whatever shams have now that they got 10 levels ago, can't remember the name off hand)
2) Add corruption resist to Ferocity, maybe let it over cap STA a little the way Sham focus line does?
3) Player cast slow that's 65% same as the old ones, but with resist mod like Steel Trap
4) Upgrade to Growl, something like 2000 hp and 25% dmg mod and 200 hp regen (This least important imo, it's a very useful spell now and I wouldn't' want an increase that cost 1000 mana to cast and still only lasted 1 minute)
5) One new cold nuke, one new poison nuke
6) Dots worth memming (or not if they plan for bsts to be instant DD I don't especially care for dotting ability, but I dislike getting spells I never use)
7) Add END regen to both Spiritual line and Paragon line.
8 ) Improved cures!  Poison (12) seriously needs help and Disease (36) could use some tweeking.  Wouldn't mind a curse cure but I can pass on that.

[Grbage]

1. Toss fero out the window, it's not worth losing another spell for.
2. Group haste.
3. Stat cap breaking buffs to make them worth casting again.
4. Bite upgrade, love that spell.
5. New debuff? I never used it much myself because it did not seem worth the mana cost but with how the newer mobs are it could be useful again.
6. No new spells to "help" pet survivability, fix the fundamental way a pet works instead.
7. Make sure you beat them over the head some more over no new DoT's.

[Khauruk]

Seriously....why is everybody obsessed with Combat Effects??

[Kroe]

Proc based dps has been my staple...seems like forever (as those weapons became available to me).

In my current content (entering TSS), Cogblaster is superior to tonfa for me in general play (except under disc).  My dps was 'proc' enhanced when i was in Time (ED), GoD (SSB) and so on.  At the time, they were the best weaponised dps tools that I had available and their performance is directly tied to my combat effects (currently 83).  Well, thats why *I* value combat effects anyway.

As far as spells go, I would be in favour of most of the suggestions made thus far.  In addition, we seem to be a hybrid without a unique self-buff/combo buff, and this would be a nice addition.  Instead of an actual overcap combat effects modifier, how about a spell that mirrors the bard self buff from TBS, Jonathan's Mightful Caretaker?

Jonthan's Mightful Caretaker    Detail | History | Stacking | Raw Data

Slot    Description
1:    Increase Attack Speed by 70%
2:    Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 6%
4:    Increase ATK by 16 (L71) to 17 (L75)
7:    Increase All Skills Minimum Damage Modifier by 204%
8:    Increase Proc Modifier by 102%

The slot 8 proc modifier (106% for the rank II) seems like a decent way to get combat effects like enhancements without going overcap on combat effects themselves.

[Khauruk]

Proc based dps has been my staple...seems like forever (as those weapons became available to me).

Should your "class defining" dps boosting buff affect only Beastlords, or should it affect real DPS classes?

DPS classes that get a benefit from CE/overcap CE:
Monk - nope - and they won't start using boomsticks if we get Fero like this.
Zerker - nope - The agro would be too much anyways.
Rogue - nope - Boomstick offhand = sadpants.

Other classes:
Warrior - yes.  But warrior agro is rapidly going away from procs, and is relying upon weapon ratio and agro modifiers.
Ranger - no
Bard - rarely
Beastlord - 1/2 of raiders who have weapons from Demi/TSS (TBS has no boomsticks, Same DK, Anguish, nobody cares about Time, GoD))
Paladin - Nopers
Shadowknight - nada
Cleric - Yes...those few who melee w/ their boomsticks.  Same goes for other casters.  Doesn't affect raids anyways.  Part time only during groups/gimp content.

CE would be a stupid choice for adding to Ferocity.

[Shieara]

1.  Ferocity - either revamp it to make it useful or drop the spell.  Right now it is taking up a slot that would be better used by something different.

2.  Cripple upgrade - lets get one please.  It sounds like it will be good with the new expansion.

3.  Haste - hasting a group with our current one sucks a lot.  I don't care if our haste % increases but I would like to see either a group version or a duration increase so it is not the painful experience that it is now.

4.  Continue both the poison and ice nuke spell lines.  I'd like to see the poison nuke line extended down the levels some to at least 60.

5.  Growl of the panther upgrade.

6.  Buffing in general.  In the past we got buffs well after shaman, but they were still used a fair amount at least in the casual crowd because fewer players were maxed on stats.  In current EQ this has changed.  We should always be behind shaman on buffs but I see no reason that we can't be improved from where we are currently. 

7.  Paragon, can this please be based on a % instead of a fixed amount of mana returned?  That or endurance regen added (futile dream, yes I know).

8.  I'd like to see a utility buff for the pet, doesn't stack with hobble or pet slow lines, that is a poison/ice debuff. 

9.  A pet defensive disc or a way to have it shield master upon demand.

10.  Frenzy of spirit: this was one of our class aa way back in PoP.  Can we ever get an upgrade to this beastlord-only aa?

[Khauruk]

7.  Paragon, can this please be based on a % instead of a fixed amount of mana returned?  That or endurance regen added (futile dream, yes I know).

8.  I'd like to see a utility buff for the pet, doesn't stack with hobble or pet slow lines, that is a poison/ice debuff.

7 - won't happen.  Dev's hate %age based upgrades that scale forever.  This has been vetoed for 2 betas now, and won't happen now either.  I think we need to look elsewhere (i.e. non-MGBable upgrade to Paragon)

8 - Ice might not be bad.  There's huge debuffage out there for poison, which only impacts shammies (usually not dotting), necros, and now Beastlords.  Ice is only debuffed by druids and the Malosinise/Malis buffs, but impacts druids, rangers, wiz, beastlords.  I'll try to find some actual numbers, but that might be useful.

[Khauruk]

I just PMed Rashere again to see what their plans are regarding NPC AC stagnation and the degree of openness in the dev community to adding mod2s to Ferocity if the AC boost proves problematic/insufficient.  Hopefully he'll reply tomorrow.

I'll post his reply here when/if I get one.

[Krinsh]

I would like to see an aa or spell that can call assistant from the wild. Basically like our BE but creatures that are not summoned.

[Kroe]

Should your "class defining" dps boosting buff affect only Beastlords, or should it affect real DPS classes?

Khauruk, maybe you should read what I posted again? I didn't say that I would prefer a proc enhancing effect on Ferocity (I voted to scrap it all together).  The proc enhancing effect I would prefer on a self-buff, that we never seem to get.

You asked why people 'cared' about combat effects, and I posted why I did (and still do).  As our double attack rate has increased, my 'benefit' gained from wielding a 'boomstick' has diminished and has favored weapon ratio.

Again 'class defining' is certainly something Fero has not been, and for some time.  Who knows what the initial intent of the spell was meant to be?  Something like ferine avatar and champion is strictly focused on damage yet savagery/ferocity has always been mixed, since inception.  There has always been the defensive (well, I see resists as defensive) component to the spell - ie it was never *just* an offensive dps increaser.