Author Topic: Per Prathun's request at FF, spells parent classes have that the hybrids should  (Read 22325 times)

Offline Khauruk

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Upgraded Protective Spirit Disc

Not what Prathun's looking for, and not something that'll be even potentially addressed until beta's underway, I'd wager.  I'm curious what exactly you're looking for though...

Current:
Protective Spirit Discipline
Slot    Description
1:    Increase Melee Mitigation by 90%
Recast Time:     234
Duration:    2 ticks

What upgrade are you thinking of?
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Offline hakaaba

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I started with a list of all shammy spells higher than level 50 and eliminated the following:

avatar - our equivalent is fero
root - we don't get roots
malo - we dont get debuffs
agi buffs - we don't get agi buffs *shrug*
heals -  we get our own
slows - we get our own
focus - we get our own
pets - we get our own
nukes - we get our own
dots - we get our own
shaman specific spells (canni, panther among others)

which leaves (including ones we already have for reference):

Level: 50 (bst 59)

Talisman of Jasinth SHM/50 BST/63
     1: Increase Disease Resist by 45

Level: 51 (bst 60)         

Everlasting Breath DRU/50 SHM/51 ENC/51   
     1: Water Breathing(1)

Levitation DRU/50 SHM/51 WIZ/50 ENC/51   
     3: Levitate(1)

Level: 52 (bst 61)         

Regrowth RNG/64 DRU/54 SHM/52 BST/64   
     1: Increase Hitpoints by 20 per tick

Primal Essence SHM/52   
     3: Increase STA by 20
     5: Increase AGI by 20
     6: Increase STR by 20
     7: Increase DEX by 20

Disinfecting Aura SHM/52
     1: Decrease Poison Counter by 10
     2: Decrease Poison Counter by 10
     3: Decrease Disease Counter by 10
     4: Decrease Disease Counter by 10

Blood of Nadox SHM/52
     1: Decrease Poison Counter by 9
     2: Decrease Poison Counter by 9
     3: Decrease Disease Counter by 9
     4: Decrease Disease Counter by 9

Level: 53 (bst 62)         

Talisman of Shadoo SHM/53 BST/61
     2: Increase Poison Resist by 45
 
Cripple SHM/53 ENC/53
     1: Decrease DEX by 58 (L53) to 80 (L75)
     2: Decrease AGI by 68 (L53) to 90 (L75)
     3: Decrease STR by 68 (L53) to 90 (L75)
     4: Decrease AC by 30 (L53) to 37 (L75)

Level: 54 (bst 63)         

Shroud of the Spirits SHM/54
     4: Increase AC by 26 (L54) to 30 (L65)

Riotous Health SHM/54
     1: Increase STA by 50

Remove Greater Curse CLR/54 PAL/60 DRU/54 SHM/54   
     1: Decrease Curse Counter by 9
     2: Decrease Curse Counter by 9
     3: Decrease Curse Counter by 9
     4: Decrease Curse Counter by 9
     5: Decrease Curse Counter by 9

Level: 55 (bst 64)         

Chloroblast RNG/62 DRU/55 SHM/55 BST/62
     1: Increase Hitpoints by 994 (L55) to 1044 (L60)

Annul Magic CLR/53 RNG/61 DRU/55 SHM/55 NEC/53 WIZ/53 MAG/53 BST/61
     1: Cancel Magic(9)
     2: Cancel Magic(9)

Talisman of Kragg SHM/55 BST/62
     1: Increase Max Hitpoints by 365 (L55) to 425 (L75)
     2: Increase HP when cast by 365 (L55) to 425 (L75)

Level: 56 (bst 65)         

Acumen SHM/56 BST/65
     1: See Invisible(1)
     2: Ultravision
    
Celerity SHM/56 ENC/39 BST/63
     1: Increase Attack Speed by 47% (L39) to 50% (L44)

Regrowth of Dar Khura SHM/56
     1: Increase Hitpoints by 20 per tick

Level: 57 (bst 66)         

Talisman of the Brute SHM/57
     1: Increase STA by 50

Maniacal Strength SHM/57
     1: Increase STR by 68

Level: 58 (bst 67)         

Talisman of the Rhino SHM/58
     1: Increase STR by 68

Mortal Deftness SHM/58
     1: Increase DEX by 60

Talisman of Epuration SHM/58
     1: Increase Disease Resist by 55
     2: Increase Poison Resist by 55

Level: 59 (bst 68)         

Talisman of the Raptor SHM/59
     1: Increase DEX by 60

Voice of the Berserker SHM/59
     3: Increase AC by 24
     5: Increase AGI by 74 (L59) to 90 (L75)
     6: Increase STR by 84 (L59) to 100 (L75)
     7: Increase DEX by 74 (L59) to 90 (L75)

Level: 60 (bst 69)         

Torpor SHM/60
     1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 300 per tick
     3: Decrease Movement by 100%
     11: Decrease Attack Speed by 30%

Level: 61 (bst 70)         

Replenishment DRU/61 SHM/61
     1: Increase Hitpoints by 40 per tick

Level: 62 (bst 71)         

Ancestral Guard SHM/62
     4: Increase AC by 36

Endurance of the Boar SHM/62
     1: Increase STA by 60

Talisman of the Tribunal SHM/62
     1: Increase Disease Resist by 65
     2: Increase Poison Resist by 65

Level: 63 (bst 72)         

Swift Like the Wind SHM/63 ENC/47
     1: Increase Attack Speed by 60%

Strength of the Diaku SHM/63
     5: Increase STR by 35
     6: Increase DEX by 28

Talisman of the Boar SHM/63
      1: Increase STA by 60

Blessing of Replenishment DRU/63 SHM/63
     1: Increase Hitpoints by 40 per tick

Level: 64 (bst 73)         

Talisman of Celerity SHM/64
     1: Increase Attack Speed by 60%

Talisman of the Diaku SHM/64
     5: Increase STR by 45
     6: Increase DEX by 35

Tiny Terror SHM/64
     1: Decrease Player Size by 34%

Level: 65 (bst 74)         

Quiescence SHM/65
     1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 420 per tick

Breath of Trushar SHM/65
     1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 630 per tick

Level: 66 (bst 75)         

Spirit of Sense SHM/66
     1: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 7%

Spirit of Perseverance SHM/66
     1: Increase Hitpoints by 60 per tick

Crippling Spasm SHM/66
     1: Decrease DEX by 100
     2: Decrease AGI by 100
     3: Decrease STR by 100
     4: Decrease AC by 39

Level: 67 (bst 76)         

Ancestral Bulwark SHM/67
     4: Increase AC by 46

Spirit Veil SHM/67
     1: Invisibility

Spirit of Might SHM/67
     7: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 5%

Level: 68 (bst 77)         

Spirit of Fortitude SHM/68
     1: Increase STA by 75
     12: Increase Sta Cap by 40

Talisman of Sense SHM/68
     1: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 7%

Level: 69 (bst 78)         

Talisman of Fortitude SHM/69
     1: Increase STA by 75
     12: Increase Sta Cap by 40

Talisman of Perseverance SHM/69
     1: Increase Hitpoints by 60 per tick

Pure Spirit SHM/69
     1: Remove Detrimental(6)

Level: 70 (bst 79)         

Talisman of Might SHM/70
     7: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 5%

Spiritual Serenity SHM/70
     1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 820 per tick

Ghost of Renewal SHM/70
     1: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 630 per tick

Level: 71 (bst 80)         

Talisman of Persistence SHM/71
     1: Increase STA by 83
     2: Increase Endurance Pool by 480
     12: Increase Sta Cap by 50

Preternatural Foresight SHM/71
     1: Increase Chance to Avoid Melee by 8%
     6: Cannot parse Chance to create Lifeshard (100/100/0)

Spirit of the Stoic One SHM/71
     1: Increase Hitpoints by 72 per tick

Level: 72 (bst 80?)         

Cure Corruption PAL/75 DRU/71 SHM/72
     1: Unknown #369 (100/-4/4)





Of course this means shamans need to get something thats better in some way than tribunal and an upgraded cripple somewhere between levels ~70 and 80
« Last Edit: August 06, 2007, 04:23:32 am by hakaaba »

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Offline Humlaine

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Please list the spell and why you think you as a hybrid should get a spell one of your parent classes has., this is not for upgrades of our current spells but a spell that we dont have that one of our two parent classes have, this is just a reminder

Offline hakaaba

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thats exactly what i did?

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Offline Humlaine

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the post wasnt directed at you hakaaba, it was recommended by another CC if this was posted on class site to try and make sure that part was there, you did everything correct

Offline Grbage

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First we need an answer from the devs, are we a utility class or dps class? Seems they are as confused about it as much as we are.

After that decision has been made, give us the spells shammies have in whichever discipline at around 10 levels above where shammies get them.
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Offline Khauruk

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First we need an answer from the devs, are we a utility class or dps class? Seems they are as confused about it as much as we are.

After that decision has been made, give us the spells shammies have in whichever discipline at around 10 levels above where shammies get them.

A - won't happen
B - won't happen like that.

Devs have never answered our request about their 'vision' for us...no matter how wonderful and useful that would be.  I'm thinking they're just feeling burned by all the Legolas ranger fanbois, and Battleblade's spittle that he's always posting on the eqlive forums.

B - we don't want that to happen.  Shammy spells are tuned around shaman's gigantic mana regen, longer cast times on most because they're not meleeing, etc,....  Also, (I'm thinking of this mostly dps-based, fyi), shammy nukes are mostly not worth casting, rains have usability issues, sting of the queen isn't wildly hot anymore, dots have resist issues, and aren't useful in xp groups.

I see this as an opportunity to get a few useful spells added w/o a whole lot of griping.  This won't be any game changing wild re-envisionment.  This is Prathun willing to toss us a slight bone, and keep the 'hybrid' theory alive.

So, no...we're not going to get group HoTs, doubtful we'll have any chances to get HoTs at all, won't get panther, won't get the nice shammy (omens+) buffs w/ all the nice mods on them, etc, etc,...

This isn't a re-envisionment, or a large overhaul.  This is simply a shot at getting some convenience added, or a small upgrade to a forgotten spell line.
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Offline Khauruk

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Added Talisman of Epuration/Tribunal, Spirit Veil, and Tiny terror to my PMs to prathun.
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Offline Rilelil

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Group shrink is a complete waste imho and I personally wouldn't even purchase the spell since i don't even currently mem our single target shrink i use  the Wild Lord's Sandals and shrink people that way. So needless to say  that spell is of little use or want from me personally.

Spirit veil  I think was something they talked about in TSS but got dropped  So this would be a major convince spell and something I would use definitely.

De buff Spell like a cripple would be great been long over due for a upgrade. As for a cold De buff I am all for it  to many times we are stuck on cold resistant mobs and if there is a lack of a druid around  makes 90% of our nuke lines useless.

Offline hakaaba

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this is strictly a conversation about existing, lower level, shaman spells that we should get as a shaman hybrid since these types of spells have been completely neglected since PoP, so a cold debuff isnt really going to happen since we never got the malo line at all (intentionally as a balance issue).

Noone has mentioned the fact that we're overdue an upgraded long duration regen spell (feral vigor upgrade) which shammys have seen upgraded while we were neglected on that front.  The same applies to invis, shrink, and cures, regardless of how useful each of these would be.

Not to mention the fact that the strength/dex buff line eventually becomes the Increase all skills damage modifier/ increase chance to avoid melee lines that we deserve a piece of (at one tier lower effectiveness than shammies at all times)
« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 12:25:00 am by hakaaba »

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Offline Rilelil

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My thought is if the spell isnt going to be of use to us then why bother discussing it honestly this is about what our parent class has that would be a use to us shrink is a spell that would have no real use for us other then a convience and i would rather not have is all i am saying.  As far as a cold debuff shaman have malo line  why not give us a debuff we would actually benefit from? The Shaman class is the debuffing / buffing class for the most part why shuoldnt we benefit from  more debuffs that would be usful.

Offline Khauruk

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Noone has mentioned the fact that we're overdue an upgraded long duration regen spell (feral vigor upgrade) which shammys have seen upgraded while we were neglected on that front.

I personally don't feel one is needed....and the developers are moving away from those as well, since they just don't stack up compared to mob DPS nowadays.  The druids even had theirs removed from the game at 71-75, and it's not wildly missed.  I personally would almost never cast a regen upgrade, and haven't cast my current one since Veksar was a hotzone and the regen could take care of a huge portion of the mob dps.
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Offline Khauruk

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My thought is if the spell isnt going to be of use to us then why bother discussing it honestly this is about what our parent class has that would be a use to us shrink is a spell that would have no real use for us other then a convience and i would rather not have is all i am saying.  As far as a cold debuff shaman have malo line  why not give us a debuff we would actually benefit from? The Shaman class is the debuffing / buffing class for the most part why shuoldnt we benefit from  more debuffs that would be usful.

Unless I totally misunderstand what Prathun is looking for, he is looking for a list of already existing spells that should be given to the redheaded hybrid stepkids.  Not something new, not something requiring creation of new spells.

If you're serious about proposing a cold debuff spell for Beastlords this next expansion, start a new thread for it.
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Offline hakaaba

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thats nonsense.  solo efficiency is ALL about maximizing efficiency and regen adds up to alot of passive healing.  Sure 70 hp/tick doesnt sound like much against mobs hitting for 1500 but it adds up to a free cast of our heal over the duration of a short fight.

If youre not casting regen when you haste yourself while you solo, youre throwing away some of your efficiency.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2007, 03:37:16 am by hakaaba »

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Offline Khauruk

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thats nonsense.  solo efficiency is ALL about maximizing efficiency and regen adds up to alot of passive healing.  Sure 70 hp/tick doesnt sound like much against mobs hitting for 1500 but it adds up to a free cast of our heal over the duration of a short fight.

If youre not casting regen when you haste yourself while you solo, youre throwing away some of your efficiency.

You are indeed right, but ooc regen has thrown efficiency out the window in many cases, and changed much of how I solo.  I'm no longer trying to fight nonstop for 30+ minutes at a stretch, and the huge rate of ooc regen simply dwarfs what a regen spell does.  One more tick in ooc regen doesn't bother me much as I am expecting to med up nowadays.

I'm certainly not going to poo poo it, but wouldn't cry if it doesn't get upgraded for SoF...esp. since group encounter difficulty is supposed to skyrocket with this expansion.
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