slow suggestion

[hakaaba]

Neither the mod nor the % of our slow is likely to get an upgrade unless chanters/shamans do, which is also very unlikely because magic resist is very carefully balanced around slow being -30/-60.

But what i'd like to see is a new slow spell with the same properties of sha's legacy (65%, -30 mod) that has a 25% resistance to being mitigated by a mob's slow mitigation.  This is the next logical step in upgrades for slows, since they have reached a peak of effectiveness and for the last 10-15 levels have dropped dramatically in usefulness.

Obviously we should get together with shamans and enchanters (and bards?) to ask for this as each class would need to get an upgrade of their primary slow with this new mitigation resistance to keep the balance.

[Khauruk]

If SOE wants the mobs to be slowed more, they'll just lower the mitigation level.  I doubt this would happen.

I do think we have a case for a better resist mod, as we have no debuffs to cast.  We may need to trade some cast time (or possibly recast time) for it, but a case could be made.

Shaman:
Balance of Discord 1.5sec cast, -60 resist mod
Malis 5sec cast, 2.25 sec recast -66 to MR, unresistable

So - 1.5sec to cast a -60MR slow, or 8.75 seconds to cast a -126MR slow

Sha's Legacy - 1.5sec, -30 resist check

I think we could make a case for a larger resist check w/ a slower cast time...perhaps -60 w/ a 3 second cast time?

I doubt we'd get it though.

[hakaaba]

(1) they wouldnt give that to us
(2) why would you cast that? cast time >>> resist mod
(3) who is actually having problems with resists in the last 2-3 expansions?  i dont even remember the last time i saw a trash mob resist legacy more than once.
(4) on the off chance youre soloing old raid mobs or something with crazy high resists, use steeltrap.  vuala, guarenteed to land practically.

But the point is.  the only logical way to upgrade slow is to start taking chunks out of the mitigation somehow.  I don't think they fully realize what everything being partially slowable does to the utility of slow.

Keep in mind that the mitigation is set automatically by level of the mob.  They can change it by hand, but the VAST MAJORITY of content is using this defualt value. Usually they only hand change it on especially difficult group boss mobs and raid mobs -- and that is to increase the value above the base line mitigation.

It is quite possible that with level 75 mobs we'll start seeing the baseline mitigation be slightly slowable, which in my mind without some change to slows to combat it, would be unacceptable to slowing class utility.

[Humlaine]

its my current understanding we might see, a upgrade along the lines of our legacy version, bascly a little better resist check but nothing more, probbly like -10 resist check more then what we have which is -30? but I can put some feelers out there and see what I come up with.

[Jonaze]

Would love to see one that last longer if anything.

[hakaaba]

/agree with jon.

Honestly our priority with slow should be as follows:

(1) less mitigation somehow
(2) longer duration
(3) more mod
(4) more %

[Humlaine]

only problem with less mitigation is it wouldn't be just for us, slow as we know it, well is kind of horrible in its current state much like fero, our slows mitigated on average from talking with dev's between 25-50% of the time.

[hakaaba]

of course it wouldnt just be for us.  If we were to get it, i would have no problem with enchanters shamans getting it and bards getting a weak version.

I'd say our slows are mitigated closer to 75-90% of the time from mitigation messages.  (i regularly use the mitigation message as the message that slow wasnt resisted because it is so consistant lol)

Unless you were referring to the amount that it is mitigated to, in which case 25% is probably a reasonable estimate for partially successful

[dainfrol]

unless they are saying 25% - 50% of ALL mobs in the game.

[Tomorrow]

Sorry about going a bit off Topic here however,  what scale are we basing our slows upon? 

We will never ever see our slow being equal level to a Chanty or even a Shammy.  Argueably you might compare it to our pet slow, lol thats a joke, but lets be realistic.  Shammy slow is going to be greater than Enchanter Slow which is going to be greater than Beast slow which is going to be greater than Bard slow so stop asking for it to be better than 65%.  Our slows are mitigated equall compared to those classes too.  If they get partially slowed............ we get partially slowed... and so on.

On plate tanks, our slow is good enough majority of the time, however on us (beastlords) our slow is not enough.   Are you suggestion Beastlords have more of a mitigation problem in defense? or are you saying that our slow is not good enough for a plate class? 

The only Two reasonable things we can ask for  is the following, however it would mean the other 2 classes gets the same.
1) Longer duration
2) Less resisted ( not mitigated)

Before we start making guesses of what our slows are doing lets look at the facts please.

Okay here is the definitions of slows
Mostly = 75% x base
Partially = 50% x base
Slightly = 25% x base

Base level of Shammy = 75%,  base level of Enchanter = 70%,   base level of beast = 65%

------------------Percent Slowed----------------------------------
                Shammy      Enchanter        Beast           
Mostly        56.25%        52.5%          48.75%             
Slightly       37.5%          35%             32.5%
Partially      18.75%        17.5%           16.25%

--------------Mob attack speed (1-%slowed)-----------------
Mostly       43.75%         47.5%         51.25%
Slightly      62.5%           65%            67.5%
Paritally     81.25%         82.5%          83.75%
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now if u wanna compare mitigation between classes in terms of damge

                Beast vs enchanter                                              Beast vs Shammy
mostly = (51.25-47.5)/47.5 =  7.9% Faster damage taken    =    17.1% Faster  damage taken
partially =(67.5- 65)/65% =  3.8% Faster dmg taken            =     8% Faster damgae taken
slightly = (83.75-82.5)/82.5 = 1.5% Faster dmg taken          =     3.1% Faster damage taken

Now please note! Mitigation NARROWS the gap of % slow between classes, and NOT the ladder effect.  I think the real issue is the gap difference between Leather vs Plate not slows.  The only thing we might see is a resist check on the spell landing and thats because higher level mobs will have higher level resists.

*** Added*****************
And your probably thinking Why slow a mob if its only going to be slightly for a beast i.e. 16.25% slow............. well the biggest effect of slow is that it NULLIFY's any and all haste, you will be only dealing with mobs base attack speed.  So...... slow on!!
*************************

[TabarQuell]

"well the biggest effect of slow is that it NULLIFY's any and all haste, you will be only dealing with mobs base attack speed.  So...... slow on!!"

Except with Undengar and his Zek loyalists... Do Not Slow those guys. ever. period. You Will Kill Your Raid. no joke.

I'd like to see the Duration restored to Sha's Revenge levels (3.5 Minutes)

Slow got double nerfed in OOW, Lower Duration and Lower Effect.

[Khauruk]

I would not ever call it a nerf.  They gave us that spell long after omens came out (after don came out too, I believe) to help us deal with resists.  Was it a bit of a tradeoff?  Yeah...but for group encounters 90 seconds is usually plenty.

[Grbage]

I don't believe you will ever see a spell in game that lowers the amount that slow is mitigated. Why? I suspect they put slow mitigation in to combat having to inflate mob dps to compensate for gear inflation.

That would make it even rougher then it already is on silk and leather classes (other then monk).

[hakaaba]

but lets be realistic.  Shammy slow is going to be greater than Enchanter Slow which is going to be greater than Beast slow which is going to be greater than Bard slow

For reference, my suggestion was to suggest giving all slowing classes an upgrade of this type, keeping the undisputed shaman > chanty > bst > bard order untouched.

And there's no reason not to ask for mitigation resistance.  Noone's going to argue that slow isn't our single biggest source of utility in groups and almost in raids (yes, our slow is essentially useless, but can anyone name something we provide to raids that's unarguably better? and no, dps is by definition not utility)

[sicshift]

hmm well this may be a silly suggestion but what the hell ill toss it out there for yall to pick apart :D


being that there is overhaste in the game, how bout an overslow component? ill leave the percentages and all that hoopla to you peeps but its just a thought. bard has overhaste, we get overslow. if there is a shaman or chanty slow on the mob, ours would stack and add X%  im sure that would make me wanted :D