Cripple Parse, part 1

[Khauruk]

Crossposted on TSW, samanna.net, thedruidsgrove.org

Spell tested: Shaman lvl66 Crippling Spasm (-100 agi/dex/str)

Mob: A Lightning Diodite Staticfist (MPG) (same mob both parses)

Parse 1: No cripple
Length - 13.3 minutes
32 flurries (2.406 flurries/minute)

Parse 2: Crippled
Length - 14.65 minutes
28 flurries (1.911 flurries/minute)

Difference: ~26%.

Short parses, aye.  I could only find an interested shammy w/ a little bit of time. And my druid could only keep me up for 13.3 for the uncrippled parse. But, I couldn't find this info anywhere else.

Much thanks to Sabisback of Alliance Raiders on Luclin for volunteering his time to help.

[Bumkus]

This is awesome.  Do you also have the raw DPS numbers?  (For you and for mob?)

And do we have an Incapacitate parse to compare against?

I could do an Exterminator Sutton parse for incapacitate, but does benefit for incapacitate/cripple scale linearly as you go against higher level mobs?

[Khauruk]

This is awesome.  Do you also have the raw DPS numbers?  (For you and for mob?)
No.  Debuffs were different/not constant (slow dropped at one point on first parse, and atk debuffs weren't constant.  Second parse had another atk debuff stacked on it)
And do we have an Incapacitate parse to compare against?
Not a clue.
I could do an Exterminator Sutton parse for incapacitate, but does benefit for incapacitate/cripple scale linearly as you go against higher level mobs?
Who knows?  Also, Exterminators don't have any special attacks that I recall, so you wouldn't be testing the -AGI portion of the buff.  You're much higher level w/ defensives, so it'd probably take hours for the -STR portion to show an effect on hit distributions.  Not worth wasting your time on.

As far as scaling....it will scale based on mob stats, not necessarily mob levels.  If you take one tank for each test, the -STR will have more effect in Kod'Taz for example as compared to PoFire because GoD mobs have the highest attack of any expansion Solteris raids.

I think at this level, it would take a long time to get a decent confidence parse of Incapacitate...perhaps several hours crippled/not.  And it would be best against a high attack mob...i.e. what Beastlords have a hard time tanking.

[hakaaba]

wouldnt the opposite be true?  Assuming mob attack behaves like player attack, it is likely that mobs with especially high attack are over the soft cap and will lose less from -str than mobs who are below the cap.

[Khauruk]

There is no ATK softcap though!  It...does...not...exist...in...code.

-STR will have the greatest impact when mob ATK is high in relation to player a player's mitigationAC (different than shown AC).  So, if you Cripple Vergalid (high melee dps mob) with an HP-centric warrior (3.5kish AC) you will see x impact.  If it is a very AC centric warrior such as Bedavir (4.8kAC buffed), you will see less impact.

[hakaaba]

the atk softcap varies by the ac of the target, yes.  but it still exists  :-D

[Khauruk]

There is a point where increasing player attack gains decreasing returns.  But, that is not a softcap in the way it is normally understood (i.e. intentional).  There is no attack softcap, and to perpetuate this myth simply detracts from efforts to make atk buffs more effective to to get them replaced (i.e. all the posts talking about raising atk softcap now plskkthx).  I'm sure you understand the distinction, but many don't.

[dainfrol]

When some people think softcap they are thinking that we are talking about a number in the code there returns start to diminsh.  There is no such number built into the code.  What Hakaaba is talking about is that point of diminishing returns when ATK gets higher than AC. 

Some people think softacap=number written in stone

Others think softcap=point diminishing returns

I think it doesn't matter what you call it, there is still a point where extra ATK isn't doing anything, so debuffing ATK may or may not do much.

[Bumkus]

well i found a good mob to test the dex and str effects on.  you can pretty much stand if front of Highland snakes in Goru'kar Mesa all day long without getting killed at 75.

They seem to proc both a poison and a corruption effect.

I ran a 30 min parse with the snake un-incapacitated , then had to camp before I could a run test on the same mob incapacitated.  so basically I got nothing.

Edit:  Well so I'm an idiot.  Incapacitate doesn't have Dex adjustment.  Just Str, Agi and AC.  won't affect proc rate.  oh well.  I'll run a 30 min parse and see if the average hit changes anyway

[Bumkus]

Ok, here's two 30 minute incap parses.

Me:
75 bst
max defensive aa's
ac 1932

Highland snake (not incapacitated)
90 Snake venom spells (2.97 procs/minute)
31.24 minutes
max hit 132
average hit 46.95
min hit 19
DPS 7.87
accuracy 21.93%

Highland snake (incapacitated)
64 Snake venom spells (2.05 procs/minute)
31.26 minutes
max hit 132
average hit 46.66
min hit 19
DPS 7.67
accuracy 21.44%

Are we sure there is not a dex component to incapacitate, like with cripple?  The strength modifier itself seems to be of minor benefit, but I got 1/3 the procs in 2nd fight.

[Khauruk]

Do you have a number of rounds from those parses please, Bumkus?  I'd like to toss them on thesteelwarrior for the statistics people there to look at...they can do much more with them if you have a count of rounds (not hits...rounds).  You could email me the logs (I'll PM you my email addy) alternately.

[Bumkus]

Do you have a number of rounds from those parses please, Bumkus?  I'd like to toss them on thesteelwarrior for the statistics people there to look at...they can do much more with them if you have a count of rounds (not hits...rounds).  You could email me the logs (I'll PM you my email addy) alternately.

Not Incapacitated:
1441 snake hit messages
AD per yalp 20 (24 for Hit, 81 for Bash)

Incapacited:
1446 snake hit messages
AD per yalp 20 (23 for Hit, 81 for Bash)

According to Wycca, you can get the true number of rounds from the Attack delay, but I don't know if you'd base it off the overall AD, or just the Hit AD.

[Khauruk]

I don't know if it doubles/triples/flurries/whatever, or if it was slowed (I'm guessing not)....emailed logs would work best.

[Bumkus]

it was not slowed, and did not flurry or do anything special except for a poison proc.

i did notice i let incap wear off for a 1.5 minutes in the 30 minute parse, but don't think that would have a hug impact.

would a Dex adjustment affect flurries?  like it would affect proc rate?

[Khauruk]

it was not slowed, and did not flurry or do anything special except for a poison proc.

i did notice i let incap wear off for a 1.5 minutes in the 30 minute parse, but don't think that would have a hug impact.

would a Dex adjustment affect flurries?  like it would affect proc rate?

AGI affects special attacks, not Dex.

Dex supposedly affects accuracy, and I have some people telling me it doesn't affect proc rate...but, I haven't found any parses either way...so, it's on my list to do next.