Started up a new 6-box on the Rathe.

[Bulge]

This post serves no other purpose then just to share my new initiative with people who also like to box. :)

Since I moved to Oz this year, my old 6-box combo on the AB server was getting very bad pings (600-700ms) so I decided to start anew on a US server, where I am getting pings of around 230ms (doable). I could have server transferred them but I wanted to try some new classes anyway and wanted to see how it is like to start a 6-box from level 0, untwinked in the TSS zones. And so far, I am liking it!

New combo: SK, Cleric, Bard, mage, Wiz, Wiz. (My old combo was BL, Druid, Cleric, Necro, Mage, Enc) I wanted to keep things simple and want to rely mostly on nuke power and not so much on pet power. I did want Tracking, so I had the difficult task of having to choose between a Druid and a Bard. I took the Bard this time to try a new class and also because I was not sure if I could do without any kind of slow.  I took my group through the Tutorial and then Crescent Reach and now Blightfire Moors. I must say, it is kinda fun to be fighting mobs at level 35 that already hit for 255 and summon and nuke like there is no tomorrow. :D 

I am iffy about the Bard though. I mean, she is easy enough to box with melody and my Strategic Commander setup (see other thread), however, I am afraid I will be using her mostly as mana battery later on. I never use utility like Mez or Charm and rather use my Cleric for Pacify then the Bard.  The thing is, I have a hard time getting used to the fact that Bard Songs are On/Off. I prefer to cast a Spell and then be done with it, both for Buffs as well as for things like pacify. For instance, I hate it when Selo's wears off of my SK when pulling, because I get out of range. I want a buff on me that lasts for at least an hour!  I would probably use her slow, and the debuffs are ok too I guess, however a Druids Fire and attack debuff are very good also. And they are fire and forget.......

Bards have nice Resist buffs, true, but will I ever miss them in group content? So I transferred my Druid from AB and will keep leveling them both once the Bard also hits level 66. :) My group is at 38 now. I must say, the wizards are already doing fine, and they are just puny level 37 wizards. I am also happy with the Mage, I was going No Pets with this group, but I just like it too much to have at least one other Melee fighting next to me. :) Also use it for off tanking. And CoH and DS are nice too. I do miss my Pet Power of my last combo sometimes, especially when fighting nukers. Those Blightfire Witches have a large array of Spells they throw at you, let me tell you. And since I am untwinked, they pretty much all hit.  Pets you can send in early and 3 of them usually stifle casters pretty well. I can stun with spells off course but the moment I do that I better kill off the mob quick. Which is no problem with my Wizards, tbh. The DPS is quit amazing. Still, you have to be carefull with your Wizzies, because if you use them unwisely, you find yourself without any DPS and no pets to keep helping you out. That is another thing I do not like about the Bard: when things go awry, the Druid could jump in and help nuking, but the Bard is useless for emergency DPS.



Ramble, ramble.

Cheers! :)

[Hoov]

i only see one flaw in your set up. The bard slow is not all that well at upper ends.

My six box (when i actually use to play on seventh hammer) was
sk for plate class.. fd.. taunt and main tank
cleric for heals , buffs
druid for buffs heals and ports dots nukes dps
shaman for slows heals and buffs and dots dps
wizy for nukes and ports
enchanter for slows mezed and buffs

later i did switch my wizy out for a mage and did just as well.

later even still... i moved servers and started a enchanter/beasty combo (was good till i needed healing)
then dropped enchanter and went to beasty/cleric. i can take down a lot of mobs that are 1-2 expantions old. pop raid mobs  i 2 boxed almost all of tier 1-3.. well minus the ones with adds (poi for instanmce).
i can kill faster with this combo and get as much exp as a 6 box crue at times (pending location)

but over all you have a dps group.

[Humlaine]

I tend to find 3-4 boxing my zone, Box being of Bst (tank), Zerker, Shaman, and my friends ranger.  I find the shaman with all the healing aa's and mana regen to be a most effective healer...more so then a druid speaking Crit hot's plus quick heals usually cover anything your doing, and mana isnt a issue with cani

[maxawesome]

I saw this bard, in icefall, just running circles with like 10 bears chasing him as he cast his DoT and Selos. I wonder: Could one make a 6-box of bards if a macro chain could be configured to loop 2-3 of the same songs on each bard? Especially now that after a missed note, the bard will continue to try to play the song.

Start one, and make them all auto-follow that one, and they can then all target the bears and play an AE or AoE song and hit the bears till dead....

If I were already into a $600/year EQ commitment, I would at least try that combo, just to see if it works out at all. Would be interesting to say the least.

[Bulge]

I saw this bard, in icefall, just running circles with like 10 bears chasing him as he cast his DoT and Selos. I wonder: Could one make a 6-box of bards if a macro chain could be configured to loop 2-3 of the same songs on each bard? Especially now that after a missed note, the bard will continue to try to play the song.

Start one, and make them all auto-follow that one, and they can then all target the bears and play an AE or AoE song and hit the bears till dead....

If I were already into a $600/year EQ commitment, I would at least try that combo, just to see if it works out at all. Would be interesting to say the least.

I think the problem with this would be that the trailing Bards would probably be right in the middle of the pack of bears, and get plastered since they also gain aggro by AE-ing. Keeping the right distance and not getting hit seems crucial with kiting, and I do not see that happening when you have 5 of your toons pretty much in the middle of the pack. Also, going in circles with toons on autofollow is a sure way to have them end up all over the place, even if you have them on separate computers. I know I have to make my turns rather carefully, else some of my toons just go berserk and start going in huge circles. Depends on the zone and lag.


To Hoov and Humlaine: I hear you about the slow, but maybe it is better then nothing. If Shamans could Track , I would have no problems replacing either the Druid or the Bard with him, but they dont. I realize this is a weak spot of mine, but I simply must have track. Maybe I could substitute one of the other classes with a Ranger but not sure how to box one. Also, I am getting really attached to the DPS that my wizards are cranking out.
I have been duoing for a long time with a BL/Druid, but I just feel I can do more with a larger group that kills quickly. I will admit that a good duo probably rakes in more XP then a 6-box, though I think this will depend on content. At the level where I am at, I think a duo would be more efficient, but if I ever reach the level where I can really grind quickly through high level mobs because of my DPS, the 6-box wins. The fact is, I just love to have to care for 6 toons and make them work together as a team. :) More then half of my time is getting spells and gearing them up but that is part of my fun.

I will think about a Shaman though, always wanted to try some Alchemy too! :)

[dainfrol]

To do this bard kite group you cannot use aoe DoT's.  Sony nerfed bard PB AoE's so that if it hits a moving mob it will do no damage.  The best way to make this group is to have the bard /melody 4 chants and Selo's on one mob at a time and have your other DoT classes (SK and Nec prolly best because of FD) assist for target.  Then DoT the mobs up with all 3+ toons while bard is running circles.  I would run this group as BRD (agro holder), SK, NEC, and add in a DRD for heals and more DoT's.  SK would be good for when you have larger mobs because you can't autocircle around them.

[Oyvay]

New Combo: SK, Cleric, Bard, mage, Wiz, Wiz. <snip> I am iffy about the Bard
A few suggesions to help with the Usefullness of the bard.
"rather use my Cleric for pacify <snip> I hate it when selo's wears off my SK when pulling"
Use the bard to pull. Bards are one of the top 2 pulling classes in EQ.
This allows you to slow on incoming (snare/slow at your level), control adds, and bard melee buff.  Your SK will have very little problem taking agro from the bard to keep healing focused on the Tank.

If you are not going to use the Bard for the best of the classes abilities I would suggest dropping it, but the bard brings the ability to reliably obtain single mobs for your group to demolish, keeps your cleric free of pac resist agro, and leaves your SK to tank rather than be your main puller.

Would it be an option for you (with an eye to higher level mobs) to drop one wizard for a shaman?  The Shaman slow/dots and buffs would be an asset to your group and is easy to hotkey (macro).

Just some thoughts

[Bulge]

New Combo: SK, Cleric, Bard, mage, Wiz, Wiz. <snip> I am iffy about the Bard
A few suggesions to help with the Usefullness of the bard.
"rather use my Cleric for pacify <snip> I hate it when selo's wears off my SK when pulling"
Use the bard to pull. Bards are one of the top 2 pulling classes in EQ.
This allows you to slow on incoming (snare/slow at your level), control adds, and bard melee buff.  Your SK will have very little problem taking agro from the bard to keep healing focused on the Tank.

If you are not going to use the Bard for the best of the classes abilities I would suggest dropping it, but the bard brings the ability to reliably obtain single mobs for your group to demolish, keeps your cleric free of pac resist agro, and leaves your SK to tank rather than be your main puller.

Would it be an option for you (with an eye to higher level mobs) to drop one wizard for a shaman?  The Shaman slow/dots and buffs would be an asset to your group and is easy to hotkey (macro).

Just some thoughts

Thanks for the helpfull hints. I think I do not see myself pulling with one of my boxes though, I have to look at another monitor too much and use another mouse, and I also do not like when I have to switch "mains" during a fight. I am a rather lazy boxer, this is why I use the rather elaborate setup of each toon on a separate computer with its own Strategic Commander for realtime control without having to actually switch to their monitor/view. I also use a setup of 5 wireless keyboard receivers and 1 wireless keyboard for my instant group commands. So I basically just "steer"one toon (my Main) and the rest is handled by my left hand pushing a few buttons on either their COmmander or the keyboard (for group command). Having to entirely switch to another toon each fight for pulling is too cumbersome for me. At least it is for regular play, like I am doing now.

I am only 38 now and pulling in Blightfire is easy. As soon as I will hit dungeons again though I may reconsider: I want to do Named and such and I agree that Pacify sure is a fickle way to pull.  I was hoping to use my SK to pull singles, but to be honest I have no clue how FD pulling goes. :D Or snare pulling or whatever. Still have to learn a lot. I also have the Mage off course for CoH, I hear there is something as CoH pulling.

As you will notice, I am still a newbie in many areas so keep the advice coming. ;)  I will stick to my bard for now, it is fun to level up another class and maybe I will start to use it for pulling in those nasty areas.

About the Shaman: tough call, my group is entirely about DPS. Actually, I use DPS as a crowdcontrol. Right now they kill so fast, that 2 adds are no problem. Off course once the mobs start to hit for 1500 I guess I have to be more carefull with my wizards getting hit. :)

[dainfrol]

The big difference between paci pulling and FD pulling is that with Paci you pick what mob you pull and with FD it is just what ever mob takes the longest to decide that you are not worth the time.  If you have your tank FD pulling you may have a hard time, especially on long pulls.  The you may see mobs walking away, but right when you stand back up they are on your arse again. 

Post lvl 63 you may really want to look into having your bard pull.  Lvl 63 is when they can buy fading memories AA, the trick to that is just get some distance between mobs that you don't want and keep the one you do want closer.  This can be done with Paci, Mez, or Snare.  When you get the target mob close enough to the group just hit your fade button and they all forget about the BRD.  This way you don't have as much "randomness" when you are pulling from a cluster of mobs.

[Terranos]

Replace the bard with a shaman, replace one of the wizards with a ranger, /autofire will make boxing the ranger fairly trivial once you get him some archery aa's.

This gives you the advantage of better slows and buffs for your melee chars, and a better tracker as well as an alternative puller in outdoor zones. SK can do the pulling in indoor zones.

[Oyvay]

I would suggest adjusting your play style now to use the bard to pull. Or at least try it.
The pull would prolly go something like.

Senario 1
Bard pacifies, and pulls a mob toward camp.
Bard switches to a melee/regen melody
Sk assists bard and grabs agro (snare/taunt/lifetap)
Cleric hits Sk with a HoT
Wizzy 1 bombs
Wizzy 2 bombs

Senario 2
Bard pacifies, and pulls a mob toward camp.
Bard switches to a melee/regen melody
Sk assists bard and grabs agro (snare/taunt/lifetap)
Shaman malo's and slows
Cleric hits Sk with a HoT or heal
Wizzy bombs

Senario 3
Bard pacifies, gets adds.
Mez adds in camp or sacrifice bard use SK for CR rez and redo.

Really in most situations if you can break a camp the SK will be able to take over and keep the camp down.  The bard only helps break a camp quicker allowing you to step into a pattern faster.

On FD pulling.
1) identify the mobs, mob locations and agro radius.
2) decide on how you will get separation between the mobs
2a) Root method (works best on stationary mobs). Pick the mob (usually closest to you to prevent multiple assist agro mobs) root the mob. On failure FD for 2 minutes or 2 tics after the mob returns to it's spawn point.  On success bring the mob back to camp but be ready for the rooted mob to charge.  *note* the root pulling method does not work well if there are wanderers as a wanderer can go by pick up agro and end up adding or transfering agro to more mobs.
2b) Snare method. Pick the mob and snare. On failure FD for agro clear.  On success pull the mob away from it's spawn point and check for adds. If no adds bring mob to camp.  If there are adds FD and allow the adds to return and reset on their spawnpoints.  Then stand, renew snare check for adds and then take to camp.

[Khauruk]

If you have no plans of ever using the bard to pull, just replace it with another wizard or mage.  Mage gives you ultra-ghetto slow (stunned mobs from the air pet), wizard gives you more dps.  Bard's just being fairly pointless as a mana-battery now that you have ooc regen.  Or druid for tracking, w/ side benefits of outdoors pulling, backup heals, smidgen of dps. [edit:  duh, plus atk debuffs, esp. useful for harder mobs/nameds]

SK + cleric's enough for pulling imo.

[Bulge]

Thanks for the advice, guys. I will start to pull some with my bard and see how that goes. I am ready to go into Stonehive/Gorukar Mesa now, so pulling singles may become more important too. Not ready to give up a  Wizard yet though. I wish EQ had 7-man groups. :D

[Bulge]

Small update.

I am currently nearing level 50 with my group and still progressing through TSS. I am now in Gorukar Mesa. I am still leveling my Bard, and he is getting more usefull now. I use his debuff/snare a lot and have started using his Soothe, which seems to work fine. I hope this is more reliable then a Clerics pacify, but if not I guess once I have Fade, I have a way out of a resisted Soothe (am I correct?).  His Slow, even though it is still an early gimp version, is already noticable on harder mobs. Anyway, I may still swap him out for my druid once he reaches that level (66) but I think by then I will have grown very attached to him.

TSS seems to prove that it is indeed possible to get up and going in the game, without having to work your way through previous expansions. I am told that TSS group gear (the Tenish gear) will allow you to tackle Tier 1 SoF content, so I can skip the Buried sea, if I ever get to that level. Off course you will need a substantial amount of AA's too for that, so I expect to xp a lot in the other expansions too for that.

My wizards are great, currently I use their 900-ish nuke(conflagration) and the Mages Bolt which is another 850 dd. Stuff goes down real fast, though these nukes are a bit of strain on the Mana. Can't wait for level 51 and get some AA's.   One thing is holding my leveling down and that is the need to gear my toons up through all the great TSS quests. It is all the looting of the crap that takes a lot of time and is rather boring. I could skip them but for instance the Scout Madduc armor quests in Gorukar are too good to pass on. Nice focusses and such. I could buy all their crap (I was lucky and looted 2 boosterpacks which I sold for around 300k together) but there is'nt actually that much usefull stuff to buy for their current level, especially nothing with focusses.  Though they are getting near the level where the options for bazaar gear open up. So I think I will keep gearing up my Main SK through the quests in TSS and start buying gear for the rest, and also give them the stuff I loot from mobs. Untill I can start working on the Tenish armor off course, they will all need that.

I hear the new Magepets in SoF are pretty good tanks so I am still happy with my choice to replace 1 wizard with a Mage. Sometimes I wish I had more pets..... I do miss them a little bit (had 3 pets in my previoous 6 box). They are nice sustained damage if you are low on Mana, and also I miss their stuns and interrupts: they actually helped a lot to mitigate damage on my BL of that 6-box. Off course the SK is a much better tank (very noticable I may say, *much* less spikey damage) and I nuke things down so fast that my Cleric is more then enough healing, but still.

So still going strong. :)

[Bulge]

Well, almost 65 now with my group and still having fun. However, I am thinking of replacing my SK with my trusted old Beastlord who is still level 66 (SK is now 64). I finally have gotten used to the Bard slowing but I really miss the fact that I could Slow with my tanking Main as I could with my Beast. 

I am torn. I know SK's will do better againsyt high end mobs but I wonder if I will ever play on the edge, since I have never done so in the 9+ years that I play EQ. I know SK's are better pullers but I already know FD pulling is not for me since I find it incredably boring and time-consuming. Not sure about the SK's better aggro/taunt abilities either, I alwys did pretty wel with my Beast if I had an add, by slowing and incapacitating. If I get 2 adds my tactic is usually EVAC and I do not see this change with my SK. I am just not good in true CC (mezzing, rooting and such). 

If I would drop my SK for the Beast, I would also drop the Bard and replace him with my Druid probably. I like the extra healing (I used to sometimes alternate healing with my Cleric to avoid aggro, worked fine) and the fire and forget Buffs. Not a fan of Songs. However I will give the Bard one more chance: I am about to get Fading Memories and will try my hand at Mezz pulling with the Bard. I always found the Clerics Pacify line to be iffy, so if I can pull off this Mez pulling I may keep the bard. I must admit I am starting to like his Song that gives extra damage to nukes also. Tough call.

Aww, I dunno. Have to say that the SK tanks better then my Beast, it is just that I am not really taxing him, I guess. Not sure if I ever will. :)