Knights who can't keep aggro

[Argach]

The topic pretty much says it all.  I can understand if a mob takes a few swipes at me when I slow it on inc or if I chain-slow it 2-3 times. I can understand if adds smack me once or twice, if mezzed mob hits me after it has been woken up since I tried to slow it 4 times before it landed or if a knight can't sustain perfect aggro just after a rez.

But for heaven's sake, when my club procs after 1 min of fighting and the mob turns to me, then there is something really wrong in the SK/pally. The reason we invited you in the group was perfect aggro + plate tanking - if we'd wanted to restrict our own aggro we'd gotten a real warrior. At least then we'd gotten some additional dps and discs to go with the deal.  :evil:

Nothing as aggravating as having to bag the high dps, proc-augmented uber weapon ye've worked to get just because the tank can't be bothered to do his job. >_<

[Aneya]

I disagree. We BSTs can be real agro magnets at times. If I cast Scorpion Venom, Venom of the Snake, Ice Shard I will more often then not pull agro from the main tank. This drives my SK friend nuts because he needs VoQ, SD, Mod Rod just to keep agro off me. Now if he has that much trouble getting agro off me after those three spells can you imagine how bad it is with all those Uber dps weapons?

If the Knight classes snap agro spells can not keep up with your agro there is no way regardless of what they try for them to keep agro off you. Now considering how much trouble my friend has keeping agro off me, can you imagine how bad it gets with Eplane or Time equipment? Unless they have some form of Furious bash, they just can't compete with High DPS BSTs.

[Noxdowne Draggout]

I played a Paladin to level 57 and the last major place that I tanked was death row in PoJ.

The guild I was in were all level 65 people.

I was the baby in the guild and one night a group of 5 decide to bring me to PoJ.

I had a rouge, a wizard, a shammy, a cleric and a DC enchanter in the
group.

I could not believe the positive comments I had from this group about my ability to keep aggro.

Back then you would also see rampage from those mobs.

I would do my pull, then "spin" the mob so his back was to the group and then hold aggro through everything that they could throw at it.

I had 4 stuns loaded and flash of light and a healing wave spell  ( remember healing aggro back then?)

There was NO way anyone was taking aggro of of me.

I worked my tail off for the entire time I tanked.

The wizard had to go, so one of them decided to bring his 63 warrior friend over to tank and I could move into a DPS  position ( groan I had a windblade yay) after 15 mins of this guy tanking they asked ME to take over the job again.

After another 15 mins the warrior was so pissed about his lack of aggro compared to mine that he left the group.

My point?

If the knight wanted aggro he would have had it.

Problem is the guy watching TV while he is playing and not doing the work to hold aggro.

Nox

[Argach]

Pfff, I never use poison dots in groups unless I'm tanking or being an ass about aggro. Two cycled 30 sec recast nukes + my melee is not too much to ask to be able to do without getting aggro, stacking two super-high-aggro dots on the mob is a different thing altogether.

I've had a VT-geared warrior keep perfect, never-to-shift aggro over me with me chaining my two highest nukes and using ED + CoW. Any 65 knight not being able to do the same with SD + VoQ is incompetent, lazy or both. -_-

[Atropine_BB]

Any knight class that is unable to keep aggro is just plain being lazy.  How hard is it for a pally to chain stun or a sk to chain darkness?

That's all it takes.  Not only that but with 2handers being the preferred weapons for knights, there is plenty of time to cast those spells between swings.

Laziness... thats all that is.

[Bryc]

Agree with the original rant. One of my guildies is an SK, a good one, and taking aggro off him is  extremely rare. Sure, if SHFD procs 6 times I might have it, but otherwise no.

On a related note, is there any good reason an SK/PAL should be pulling with arrows?? Whenever I see that I cringe, because I know I'll be tanking for half the adventure...

[Daarr]

On a related note, is there any good reason an SK/PAL should be pulling with arrows??

Never in an adventure. Very rarely outside of an adventure.

[Kaspur]

I used to have agro fights with an SK guildie just for fun. If I really really work hard at it and start early enough (right as he gets to camp) best I could usually get was some early ping pong agro. If he was a little lax and I worked really really hard I could sometimes pull agro from him for a short while. If the the Knight is close in level and gear to you and not holding agro they are lazy or just plain bad.

I do however find it rather easy to pull agro from a warrior. Not sure if the recent patch did anything to fix this but I do feel for the poor warrior, SONY needs to give them some serious loving.

[Sutan]

My main is a 65 pally.  I keep 3 stuns loaded at all times.  Any paladin that loses aggro is being lazy.  I had a contest with a wizard once, I had him wait till the mob was at 90% and then chain nuke.  He couldnt even get the mob to turn around while I was working on keeping aggro.  We went the whole fight without the mob ever hitting anyone except me.
I think one problem is that sometimes the MT is trying to get as much DPS as possible instead of trying to keep aggro.  If I am MT, I dont even worry about my DPS.  If my group wanted DPS, they wouldnt have invited me!

[Xuthaz]

I disagree. We BSTs can be real agro magnets at times. If I cast Scorpion Venom, Venom of the Snake, Ice Shard I will more often then not pull agro from the main tank. This drives my SK friend nuts because he needs VoQ, SD, Mod Rod just to keep agro off me. Now if he has that much trouble getting agro off me after those three spells can you imagine how bad it is with all those Uber dps weapons?

Me thinks your SK friend isn't doing his job properly.  Here's a hint:

Fear  Detail | History | Stacking | Raw Data  

 
Slot Description
1:  Fear(1)

 
Mana: 40 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 3.5 Recast Time: 7
Fizzle Time: 2.25 Resist: Magic
Range: 200 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Fizzle Adj 25
Deletable: Yes Dot Stacking: Yes
Interruptable: Yes Short Buff Box: No
Target Type: Single Spell Type: Detrimental
Source: Test 01/17  

 
Classes: CLR/9 SHD/15 NEC/4 ENC/4

Clinging Darkness  Detail | History | Stacking | Raw Data  

 
Slot Description
1:  Decrease Hitpoints by 5 per tick
2:  Decrease Movement by 24% (L4) to 30% (L10)

 
Mana: 20 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 1.75 Recast Time: 4
Fizzle Time: 2.5 Resist: Magic
Range: 200 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Fizzle Adj 25
Deletable: Yes Dot Stacking: Yes
Interruptable: Yes Short Buff Box: No
Target Type: Single Spell Type: Detrimental
Source: Test 01/17  

 
Classes: SHD/15 NEC/4

Terror of Thule  Detail | History | Raw Data  

 
Slot Description
1:  Increase Hate by 600

 
Mana: 60 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 1.5 Recast Time: 6
Fizzle Time: 2.25 Resist: Unresistable
Range: 200 Location: Any
Time of Day: Any Deletable: No
Interruptable: Yes Target Type: Single
Spell Type: Detrimental Source: Test 01/17

 
Classes: SHD/63

you can throw everything you've got at the mob chain incap/chain slow/dot stacking/nukes and you can't touch the aggro of a SK using these 3 spells intelligently.  there mana cost is so negligible that VoQ+SD + Bazaar level FT can easily regen it standing, which leaves the SK plenty of room to out DPS you as well.

[Morganti]

i was accidently taking agro from a SK in BoT last night... :roll:

simply by casting "Sha's Advantage" and about half way through the fight (yes mobs health was at 50%) Scorpian Venom

mob would turn...SK would go oh crap and cast an agro spell...sometimes mob would turn back...unless my epic chose that moment to proc...tee hee

~D~

[bugman]

its really annoying when a paladin joins your group, you cant keep agro off of you to save your life and you're not doing anything special (slowing but no dots), and then the group realizes you tank better anyhow so the paladin becomes a dps addition.

really though as people have said ive had problems with warriors at times, but you should never ever have a problem a sk or paladin as with spells alone and no melee they should usually still be able to keep agro. ive even had agro contests with a shadowknight and still wasnt easy keeping the mob on me and when we want a bst can produce more agro then anyone.

as far as using arrows, i know several sk and paladins that use a shitty bow to pull because often times you dont want the mob inc either snared, or stunned in place while potential adds add, or damaged to risk being summoned. this is what they say, never really thought much about it but they say sometims you want the mob pulled right then and fast and no damage done (using a bow doesnt normally cause much damage).

[Daarr]

I had him wait till the mob was at 90%

Waiting that 10% is huge. Many don't want to wait that long anymore.Try it again with him doing it from the very start and see what happens. Just curious how long it will take to lock aggro.

often times you dont want the mob inc either snared, or stunned in place while potential adds add, or damaged to risk being summoned

So you use a low level spell that gets resisted. Personally I think a bow is just wasted on a knight. Their skill sucks, you lose potential stats with better range item, and you have to worry about always having arrows.

[Lacerate]

Have a 65 SK for my main. There is no reason for the SK/PAL to lose aggro....maybe a quick turn and a single swipe at a caster but thats it. Anything less is laziness.

Haven't used a bow since level 9, low level debuff almost always does the trick with no damage=no summoning.

As Xuthaz stated Clinging Darkness and Fear (on 53+ MOBs) are an SK's bread and butter. Not a big fan of the Terror line but that may be personal. I am not familiar with PAL spells but my BST often groups witha PAL friend. I think he pulls with stun spell and I can slow as the MOBs incoming without gaining aggro the majority of the time. Same goes for when I am playing SK, SHM usually has the MOB slowed and debuffed on incoming without gaining aggro

[Bryc]

I think one problem is that sometimes the MT is trying to get as much DPS as possible instead of trying to keep aggro.

You know, that's a good point. Sometimes I'm asked to MT for guildies, and I hate it, because I do less damage. Chaining Incap/Drowsy kills my spell dps and I assume my melee dps suffers. However, if you accept the MT job, you should realise that DPS isn't your gig. I'm sure those same tanks would be pissed off if the Cleric decided he should max DPS.