Technical Question, Single/Dual/Quad core

[jdpatt]

Hello all,
I'm in the process of upgrading my computers.  Currently I 6 box as follows:

2 Accounts on Pentium 4 2.26g - 1G RAM - 512mb Radeon X1600 Pro video card
3 Accounts on Pentium 4 3.0g - 2G RAM - 256mb NVIDIA 5500 video card
1 Account on Pentium 4 2.6g (laptop) - 1G RAM - 64mb Radeon 7500 video card

The first computer with the 2 accounts is very slow to load, and crashes frequently.  The second computer does much better, although occasionally I crash.  The laptop runs well, although it has everything turned off. 

So...

I just ordered a Dell Inspiron 530 (I know, I know, Dell's aren't that great, but they've been very good to me, and I'm on a budget).  The specs are as follows:

Intel Core 2 [email protected] - 3G RAM (will upgrade to 4g asap) - 256mb Radeon HD 2600XT

Now the questions:

I'm making a big jump forward from my older computers, I'm just wondering if anyone here has any thoughts on this.  I anticipate having some problems with the Vista OS, but it seems like it's getting better after SP1 (with another major upgrade due in June, I'm told).

Think the system is capable of running all 6 accounts, or should I do 3 on the new comp and 3 on the second computer I already have?

Will the computer "know" to send 1 or 2 processes (accounts running) to each core, or can I do that myself somehow by configuring it to do so?

Any thoughts on recommended settings or software to run?  I've used EQwindows and WinEQ in the past, as well as EQplaynice.  Currently I've just been running each account (in its own directory) without any "aftermarket" support.

Thanks for any insight or advice you can offer,

Dave

[Inphared]

Premium WinEQ really is a good thing to use. I love it and am very pleased with the service they provide. I have all my boxes programmed to ALT + #, so if I need to go to my DPS box I press that corresponding number, and boom, I'm there, no ALT Tabbing involved.

If you plan on running 6 boxes on one computer you're going to need some serious RAM to support it. On your old machines the #1 reason you're crashing a lot is because you're simply running out of RAM. I recommend 4gig or more, but remember that Windows XP can only utilize 3gigs, so you'll have to go to Vista.

Vista isn't too bad, I like it okay, but there are a few things I don't like about it from a personal standpoint that don't really have anything to do with EQ.

[jdpatt]

Thanks for the reply.

I am going with Vista Home Premium, although I'm VERY hesitant to switch from XP...it's just so stable and familiar.  Any problems configuring EQ to work on Vista?  I've heard some have had problems.

[sicshift]

Also keep in mind that you need the 64 bit OS to utilize more than 3gig

[Inphared]

Only real problems I've encountered with Vista + EQ is some basic install procedures which were taken care of by running the installer as an Admin and the Station Launcher only works if you run it as an Admin. Other than that I don't have any qualms.

[jdpatt]

Is Vista Premium a 64 bit OS?  How do you know which one you have?

Dave

[Flatus]

Any Vista you purchase, except for the Ultimate version, will be 32bit.  You have to contact MS to get 64bit install disks.  Just google Microsoft and 64bit Vista and you will find a page where you can request the disks.  You will need to enter your activation key and you must have purchased a non-OEM version to request the disks and you will be charged a "small" fee for shipping and handling of the media.

I am in the process of building a new comp (Q6600, 8GB ram, 8800GT) and am trying to get 64Bit Vista, but MS's system had not been updated with the Vista packages with SP1 (stoopid!) and CS has not contacted me back.

BTW, I can comfortably run 4 accounts using WinEQ2 on a P4 2.4 system with 3gb ram, and 3 accounts on a 1.8 dual core with 2.4gb Ram.  I always get low memory warnings on my 1gb laptop if anything else is running besides a single instance of EQ.  EQ tends to take upwards of 500mb of RAM even with most things turned off for me.  So I am not surprised that one machine crashes so much. 

[jdpatt]

Another question:  32 bit Vista won't support more than 3g of RAM? 

By non-OEM version, do you mean that the Vista Premium that comes on my Dell won't allow me to upgrade to 64 bit?  What would I have to do to upgrade if that's the case?

I really don't think the 64 bit hardware issues will hurt me, as the only peripheral I'm really worried about keeping is my printer, which is compatible, according to the Epson website.

[AbyssalMage]

Drop the dell and build one.  You said your on a budget, if thats the case, build it.  Can't help you with your technical questions but Saying your on a budget yet buying a pre-built Destop is like saying "you don't like chocolate" but eating a Chocolate cake in front of some one.

Can understand if you don't have a computer warehouse store near you but Newegg.com will send everything to you for a small fee.  Heck, if your really desperate you can buy the parts as you get the cash.  You can usually get about 40% better doing it yourself than buying it from the manufacturer but those % may have changed with the way computer prices keep dropping.  I strongly recomend you write down the computer spec's your buying from Dell and going to Newegg or your local computer wearhouse and doing a price comparison.  Also note the Manufaturer of the Board as some Motherborads are better than others just in design.

I just strongly recomend that if your going to get a new one, MAKE IT!  It really is cheaper in the long run.

[Khauruk]

....more fun too.

[jdpatt]

Not to disagree, as I know nothing about building a computer, but I can't see how building one would be all that much cheaper. 

The OS and processor would run me $450 (core 2 quad/Vista Premium), the video card another $150 or so, plus case, motherboard, power supply, 500G hard drive, memory, MS Office, keyboard, mouse, and miscellaneous "extras" would take me well over the $550 (plus free shipping) I paid.  Not to mention the tech support if something goes haywire, which switching to Vista is a valid concern.  I didn't price every component, but I'm guessing $700-$800 for a home built system with the same "stats" I have.

I won't dispute that there are better computers out there, even for the money, but I've been very pleased with the Dells I've bought in the past.  It doesn't have the upgradability a home built does, but with the money I've saved, I can just upgrade again in a year or two with a whole new system...I'm already a couple hundred bucks ahead, a couple hundred more in 2 or 3 years and I'm into a comparable Dell (adjusted for tech advancements).

Dell's retail computers may not be a great deal, but the Dell Outlet has fantastic deals if you're willing to shop them.  The site is updated in real time, so every 10 minutes there's all new stuff to look at. 

[Nusa]

I realize you've already made your purchase and appear to have an Intel bias, but I recently made a respectable system for under $500.

Check out these boards with the 780G chipset: http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=ENE&DEPA=0&Description=AMD+780G&x=0&y=0

The onboard graphics implements an HD 3200 (doesn't beat a 2600 XT, but it's in the ballpark), which is quite adequate for EQ all by itself -- I tried it and was impressed.

I bought the Asus one, cpu (It'll take quad-core phenom, although I went cheaper), 4G Ram, dvd burner, 320G hard drive, and an 80-plus power supply. I recycled case, keyboard, mouse, monitor, and OS (XP Pro) from a retired system. After I tried the onboard graphics solo, I added a fanless HD 3450 in the PCI-E slot in internal crossfire mode for better performance. I also thought about making it a quad-monitor system instead....maybe later. Other than a problem solved by a BIOS update, I'm quite happy with the result.

[AbyssalMage]

Not to disagree, as I know nothing about building a computer, but I can't see how building one would be all that much cheaper. 

Not to mention the tech support if something goes haywire, which switching to Vista is a valid concern.

You'll end up spending about the same amount, mabye a little more like I thought I stated, if I didn't I was implying it by making the purchase over 2-3 checks, sorry.

Tech support is the only thing you can't replace when "you do it your self."  As far as questions about Vista OS you should be able to contact Microsoft directly (or at least I thought you could).  But, yeah, calling one number if you have a problem and not trying to diagnose it yourself can be valuable when your computer starts smoking and your on your last nerve.  But I've done 2 Do it yourself so far and the only problem I've had was a driver on my ethernet PCI not playing nice.  Was an easy solve by returning it to the store and getting a different brand.

So gratz on the new computer, I'm do for a new one once I get done with school and get a full time job again.  But in 2 year's I would seriously look into getting a home built one.  It will probally convert you like it did me.  And you know everything inside it b/c you put it into the machine.  No guessing what part is in your machine.  If you don't know Dell buys from the cheapest seller so every week they have a different part(Manufactuere) going into the same machine.  Something that causes alot of Dell's to go back to the factory to get repaired.  Thankfully that only happens to about 5% (last stat I seen and seems to be about the industrial average for pre-built and home built).  But with home built you get the part and with Dell you have to send your whole computer back.  Usually faster just to take the part back.

GL with the new system and Grat's.  Always nice to have a new toy in the household.

[Flatus]

Dell installed software is OEM.  So non-OEM is one that you purchase at say Best Buy or Fry's with the retail packaging (you can also buy OEM software from Internet retailers, so be aware of what you are purchasing.  Most indicate that you are purchasing OEM versions).

And 32 bit Vista and XP are both limited due to addressing to basically 3GB.  I believe that it is actually 3.5, but that includes ALL memory addressing, so video card etc. eats up that 3.5, leaving you with around 3GB after all is said and done.  Just google " xp 3gb limit" and browse the hits.

And MS CS sucks (don't know if their Tech Supp. is any better).  When I purchased Vista with SP1, I could not get MS's system recognize the activation code to request alternative media/64bit.  When I called CS, the first person I spoke with asked someone else and incorrectly informed me that you have to purchase 64bit Vista separately despite all of the packaging information saying you could get it from MS and that a Supe would be contacting me in 2-4 days.  Surprise, they never did.

Second CS I spoke with (10 minutes later when I called back) also could not answer the problem immediately, but did come back with the tale that MS's system did not yet recognize  Vista SP1 codes.  As of Friday, the system does recognize SP1 codes, and it does cost 9.99 to request the 64bit DVD.

[jdpatt]

Just an update:

I got the computer last Friday, and finally have it mostly set up.  It did take a little time getting used to Vista (God, I reminds me of Linux---which isn't such a bad thing), although it's not too hard to figure out, and other than a few "quirks" such has having to run programs as an admin, or not loading the games in the "Program Files" directory, I'm fairly optimistic about it as an OS.  The Aero interface, in particular, is very handy.

Installing my games, transferring the settings from the old computers, etc took part of the day, but it does indeed run 6 accounts VERY smoothly...I can boot up all 6 accounts and be playing in less than 5 minutes, which used to take me 15-30 on the old boxes, if it didn't crash in the process.

Running all 6 on one computer was smooth at the default settings, which are probably 80% of max video settings.  Ultimately, I wound up running 4 accounts on the new comp, and 2 on the best of my older computers, mostly due to personal preference (I was used to playing on 2 keyboards/mice, and I prefer to be able to "see" the game world from 2 perspectives). 

I had considered running 2 monitors off the new computer, but figured RAM is the most limiting factor, and having 5-6G of RAM running 6 accounts was better than 3-4.  Running the games with the task manager on, it seems that 2 accounts on the older box (Pentium 4 3.0, 2G RAM, FX5500 256MB video card) uses about 25-50% of the processing power.  Running 4 accounts on the new computer (with the quad core) hovers around 10-15%...with occasional spikes in the 50% range...usually when zoning or when the party wipes).

All in all, it does indeed seem that RAM is the limiting factor when boxing multiple accounts...processing power and video memory really doesn't seem to make as dramatic a difference, at least for me.  My older computer was capable of running 3 accounts fairly smoothly...4 in a pinch, but it got a lot more sluggish.  I now think this was more RAM based than anything else. 

Since I'm sticking with the 6 instances on 2 boxes for the moment, I probably won't worry about the upgrade to 64 bit Vista...I don't need it just yet.  3G currently is more than I need, upgrading to 4 (as soon as I can) will give me plenty of headroom.  I can only imagine what will be possible with a quad core processor, 64 bit Vista and 8, 16, or 32Gig of RAM...probably a whole raid off one computer...unbelievable.

Anyway, thanks to all for the advice and input.  I really hadn't been keeping up on computers, and getting brought up to speed on the new stuff helped quite a bit.  For whatever it's worth, I highly recommend a duo or quad core processor for multi boxing...it's a huge improvement over an older comp with a single processor; barring that, cram as much RAM as you can into your current box and hope for the best!

And by the way, I hope I didn't come off too negative on the home built option.  I'd really love to do that one day, I just wanted something fast, cheap, and bug free, and the Dell was the best solution for me.  Sooner or later, I'll get the bug for a cutting edge system, and see how well I can build one. 

Also, FWIW, I was using straight EQ in windowed mode before, I upgraded to WinEQ 2.0 Pro, since I figured it would help make things run better (and the whole tiled mode is just so easier to use).  I've used it before, before I quit playing a couple years ago, and the newest version is no disappointment...it works great.

See you all in game, hopefully, and thanks again.

Dave