Top 10 list, May '08

AbyssalMage · May 05, 2008, 06:01:57 AM

From the prespective of a lvl 75 BST who has pretty crappy gear so take it with a grain of salt (on an open wound if you like but I don't insist you put it on an open wound)

1) DPS - We need an increase now that are spells are linked. Could also be done with itemization but as an average geared person the linking of spells has hurt me more than a top end raider.

2) Buffs - I have are spiritual line (HP/ATK), Sheilding Line (+HP forgot the name of it), and Regen (HP/Mana regen) that I can contribute to a group. I lose the Spiritual line if a ranger joins, the +HP if a Shaman joins, and leaves me with simple my regen line. We need over cap buffs like are shaman leaniage. Shaman have a 1 buff for all these things, give as a 4 buffs for 1 level lower treatment (would be Dire equivalance approx. I think, TSS?).

3) Haste - 30 Minute Haste (group or individual) enouph said, quit jerking us around developers.

4) Slow - Still don't have my lvl 70 slow. Give us another 65% slow (to make the whining Chanty's and shamman happy) but with a better resist modifier (-40 magic?) and buyable for those who never got there lvl 70 rune. Again, this affects me more than the end game raider.

5) Fixed Duration Invis - Spell or AA, I don't care, every class who can cast a form of invisibility has the ability to have a 10 minute duration fixed invisubility except us. Again, quit jerking us around.

6 & 7) Ferocity amd DoT's - Combining these 2 as I don't really see why we have these 2 lines. Ferocity has had some very good suggestions and DoT's casted by us just tickle the mob's in a very angry way. Figure it out, get back to us, and let us vote on it. Neither of these 2 lines are useful to us. even to a pretty pitiful lvl 75 BST. Hate to see what they are like to a top end BST. /Shudder

8) Pet Utility - Mages whine if we have a pet better or equal to them so we are stuck in a rock-and-a-hard-place. Pet slow and snare are good directions. The randomness stinks about both as you can't control when they land but no complaints here. Just keep the utility buffs coming. Mabye more pet defensive AA's, innate run AA's for pets, pet swarm AA's, ect... Be creative, we'll listen even if the Mages wont

9) Healing - Don't really see it as an issue when comparing myself to a Ranger but having the benefit they have on their upper end heals would be nice.

10) Defensive Capabilities/Agro Issue's - Because we mellee and slow in groups (and occasionally raids) we need to be able to take a hit or two. We need more ways to do this. Roar of Thunder doesn't cut it. Mabye if it was usable every 15 sec's or better, or our defensive Disc refreshed quicker but currently this is a detrimental sutuation to us. If I slow and its resisted (which it does using the lvl 65 version), it forces me to recast 2-3 times increasing my agro very quickly, so I risk taking one for the team trying to slow it or having the team take one cause I wasn't willing to gain agro. An AA that deals damage while also reducing damage is kinda funny in concept (neat lore wise though) but doesn't work in practicality. And my defensive Disc saves me once every 2-3 mobs. Also not good depending how the RNG is treating you on a certain nite. There're many ways this can be addressed but in the end it has to be addressed. *** This should be in the top 5 (#1B), not #10 where I put it ***

Again this is from my limited perspective. But again I'm also airing it because everyone seems to be posting what the level 80's need who raid. I don't fit that mold. I raid once a moth at best, I'm not at the top end, and I'm tired of seeing patch messages addressing the concerns of the lvl 80 raiders and not the community at large. Mabye some one will read this who can do something about it but I doubt it. I would have to posted on the Sony boards for that and thats just futility in the simplist form.

AbyssalMage · May 05, 2008, 06:07:59 AM

Quote from: Jebasiz on May 05, 2008, 05:52:27 AM
Healing..would take parsing and some math to show a clear need, before you'd get anymore then the standard X% upgrade to your healing spells. I don't really know one way or another if it's needed, but if someone is willing to do the work..I'm willing to talk to people about it.

I think what the community is asking for isn't a % increase but the ability to remove detrimental counters like Rangers have. Although the more I look into it, it looks more like a class defining ability cause I don't see the other healing classes with that ability to heal and remove detrimental counters but I could be wrong.

Grbage · May 05, 2008, 03:20:43 PM

Quote from: Jazzera on May 03, 2008, 12:39:15 AM
Quote
You see this is exactly what I miss now about the class. We started out as a utility class that could dps too which I loved to play. Now we are just another dps class with a little utility, not so much fun for me.

i would like to know which utility do u think we are missing? > paragon : with focused paragon it never been more usefull
   > debuff : Roar of thunder debuff part is as good as Ench cripple lvl76 with 4bst in raid we even can keep it up permanently, and Gelid Claw is priceless if u have it
   > offtank : even if we have the worst AC return of all melee class could use few upgrade here, we are still able to offtank trash in raid, and we are doing not so bad in grp content,
   > slow : we are still the 3rd slowing class, we have no prob at all to slow in any SoF content
   > backheal : we are a good support to help, with AAs and focus we crit up to 7k max,
   > buffs : prob the only point where we really loss utility, fero useless and no upgrade for sta/agi/dex/str/regenhp buffs

the only utility we are really missing is ferocity and we all know last CCs all worked hard to get it back, and we are still asking for it each time we can

I dont think we need more utility, I dont even think we never had more utility than nowaday (except for fero) while dps upgrade is a part of the game mechanic : new expansion> stronger mobs> better dps.

Though I tried to make it clear it was only my opinion let me answer you.

1) Paragon- Basically useless with todays pools. Focused Paragon-awesome aa but not enough by itself to return our utility.

2) Debuff- Roar as a debuff is decent and always has been and I always save roar for named just because of the debuff portion. Roar was billed to us as the deagro tool we had been asking for and as such is a miserable failure. Plus, as a debuff tool how do you intend to debuff every mob in a group situation? You can't, another utility lost via inattention by the devs.

3) Offtank- Still doable in groups/raids but our incoming damage has gone up dramatically. That has killed our ability to solo along with the nerfing of slow. I don't expect any help here either since they looked at defensive parses during beta and did some tweaking to all classes. Just don't feel we got anywhere near the help needed. We have a couple monks that can tank raid mobs for amazing lengths of time when trying to get a tank back up and running again. Bst just get splattered.

4) Slow- Still the 3rd best slower in the game (if you don't count our pet), yep. But SOE has seriously nerfed slow itself which is a major loss in utility. Matte r of fact, if you crunch the numbers the gap between all slowing classes has really narrowed down by the time mobs mitigate slow.

5) Healing- I don't want to be a healer and never have but our heals in no way have kept up with mob dps. Big deal if you can crit for 7k, mobs laugh at 7k now. Used to be if the healer bit it I could usually step back and pump out enough healing to keep the tank up by myself. Luckily I havent had to in sof but seriously doubt I can keep up a tank solo in most tier 2 content.

6) Buffs- They're a joke now days. Back before shammy's could break the stat cap they could toss out a couple of buffs and get the group going capped out. We had to fill the groups buff box to do the same thing but came fairly close to buffing as well as that shammy. Now? We don't come within a mile of buffing as well as a shammy. I can't even remember the last time someone pestered me for a buff while just hanging out like they used to.

Hoov · May 05, 2008, 04:53:05 PM

i have no order to my top 10.. but i personally would not stop at 10.. i think we need about 20 fixes atm

1) give us a set duration fixed invis

2) if you are going to keep all our spells linked, we need a dps boost.. increase double attack and tripple attack 15%?

3) fero .. what is that.. oh yea.. that buff every one asks for but i never mem bc of the bennifit they get from it.. make it usefull... we are seeing less of a return out of upper end geared people

4) group haste casted with the beasty pet haste.. WHAT WAS YOU SMOKIN??.. if you wish to link them.. atleast give us a duration worth the cast.. not annoy us by puttin in this spell.. its almost as usefull as having the spell due north... dont get me wrong, pet haste is nice, but the group haste part needs a tad work

5) our midigation has fell over the years.. far below where i think it should be. we need it to be raised.. at one point we were at or near the same as monks.. i think that would be about right as we are PART monk... so 80% mid of a monk would be about right.. not 40%..

6) we need new disc.. defensive and offensive.. only one defensive worth useing and it only lasing long enough for you to fart is almost as bad as giving some one a pay check and tell them they cannot cash it for 4 weeks.. on a burn fight my offensive disc is used and takees forever for a repop.. i can almost watch christmas come around before i get to recast..

7) we need new heals, if we are part shaman.. getting shaman spells.. by level 80 should we not at least have a hot that is sim to level 50-60 shaman (forget when they get the decent one)

8) give us some kind of resist debuff.. or make our slow unrestable on casts... this is something that just needs to be done... if we are to have the worst slow (not counting bards) then give us some kind of bone here

9) make the recast time on slow faster.. i mean if a mob resists slow 3x.. mob will be dead before i will have a chance to cast again.. thus putting healers out of manna... and giving beastys a bad rep about not being able to slow mobs...

10) you gave healers a ward that will heal over time.. enchanters a arura for manna.. give us some kind of paragon type ward or overhaste or fero time ward.. and make it worth buying.. if you just gonna program some low level version like 1 manna per tick just to piss us off.. then you not really doing your job... if you giving us a overhaste that is only like .5% then dont worry... if you giving fero with only +5attack.. then stay on the couch and keep watch tv...

11) give us some kind of track- even if it is for limited range.. beastlords are the lords of beasts.. and my understanding is that they are able to track down their prey and kill it.. (lore)

12) why give us a limited pet... give us a swarm pet type spell.. (not talking howl at the moon) think of mages.. they get a pet.. swarm pet and another pet sim to our howl at the moon

13) we need a better Incapaciate ... i mean why even have this spell memed now.. i notice maby 2damage dif on mobs when i cast this.. i can have a useless dot memed in its place

14) DOTS.. why give us dots that a level 50ish shaman had.. when all other spells are leveling up about 20 levels behind shamans then we need dots about same...

15) warurine .. make it last longer and make it so shrink will not be effected one way or another..

16) 2hb .. saw this earlier .. give us a better ability to use 2hb.. if you wish to put bst as a useable class at least make it compareable dps to sim 1hand weps of that erra

17) change the paragon line a bit.. true the focus paragon gave us a jump.. but that is nothing in top end raids any more.. give us an ability like... 20k manna instant for whole group once every 20 hours .. or 20k manna instant for 1 person once every 5 hours.. make it worth it.. dont give us a timer that we will have to see our grandkids graduate from school before it repops.. atleast make it usefull in raids 1x per day.. it should not be over powering as the abundance of beastys in the guilds nowdays.. i mean we MAY have 3 beastys on any given raid.. and i am in one of the top 15 guilds... i know other guilds may have more or less.. but i doubt they bring more than 5 to raids daily..

18) fix the ikslar pet. when he/she is meleing it will "lock up". true dps will not drop but this should be a simple fix

19) fix the clickys on the breasts plates to something usefull.. true some are usefull.. but not all are.

20) in general get more gm's on all servers..

Orbus · May 05, 2008, 11:41:56 PM

Ok, lets see...I will try and organize this like you asked
(in no particular order)

Spells:

--Group Haste-- Either give us a decent group haste or make the group haste from Peerless the same timer as the pet portion. Either will work for me.
--Invis-- A fixed invis with instant cast, or at least a fixed invis and an instant cast invis so I can quit carrying potions.
--Cripple/Debuffs--A new upgrade to this line is way overdue.
--Ice Spells--I saw your post that they will not be unlinked. I liked the suggestion that our next one be a respectable increase in damage then.

AA's

--Ferocity-- At this time I use this to max resists on certain fights, please add corruption resists to the list it increases. Everyone else has already pointed out that this needs something else added to make it beneficial again.
--Pact of the Wurine--Fix the shrink/reshrink issues.
--Howl/Bark at the Moon--Decrease the werewolf size, or at least make it the same as I am if I am shrunk. Its a pain in the butt when I cast it and can't see the mob I am attacking since my pet is too big

Discs:

--Protective Spirit-- Lasts 12 seconds. Extend it please.

Misc.:

--Ok, will try to be "polite" can we move our warders when they get summoned? I swear everytime I spawn him someone sends me a tell asking about "How does my warder like lovin from behind"

Vuncar · May 06, 2008, 07:45:29 PM

Rehash of general Pet issue -- Unavoidable Unintended Pet Targeting --

Specifically, effects where my pet is the only valid target.

Epic clicky effect does not bring my warder on target -- love it! Hobble AA does not bring my warder on target -- love it! However, every spell-gem pet effect does indeed bring my warder on target. Pet haste, procs, heals, shrink ... all require the presence of my own pet to even cast the spell, I get that.

While some of these cast spell effects are typically downtime buffs, there are several pet spells which are typically only used as heat-of-battle type spells and the process of hello pet target followed by retarget the mob is just aggravating, especially in scenarios where there may be more than one mob and a simple F8 doesn't cut it. The Growl and Promised series, as well as the Empathic Fury discipline are prime examples.

Oh, and the Growl series and Empathic Fury disc should be reworked. Both should make me the prime target and push the partnered recourse to my pet, not the other way around. As it is, if I should lose my warder, I also lose the ability to fire off Growl or Empathic Fury. At least the ol' Bestial Fury discipline was still usable when the warder had croaked hihi.

Smobon · May 06, 2008, 10:32:28 PM

I don't think they need to keep 'reworking' Roar of Thunder. They keep adding AAs to bring it down in reuse time and increase deaggro.
They need to give us an alternate spell or another AA to use besides Roar of Thunder.

I really don't think tracking is a bad idea, could even bring back some of are utility.

Giving us Call of the Wild or a different version that would be 'worse' than shaman and druid, could possibly bring back are utility or need in a group.
If we don't get it, ok, but then at least increase are double atk and triple atk to be better off than we are right now.

I dont think we need another offensive disc, but we need another defensive disc, because it is long overdue, it should have came out with are newest offensive disc. Only reason I say we dont need another offensive disc is because of are bestial alignment. That would be nice to have upgraded.

Upgrades to Focus Paragon would be useful, but right now, using it in a crystallos group, works well if ya use it once it pops. Have gotten so good at it, the warrior is more likely to be out of endurance before the cleric is out of mana. I think are utility in that respect is back. Now we just need are dps and we wont be too shabby.

Perhaps an upgrade again with Feral Swipe might help dps, but are Harrow needs to be badly upgraded more than monks. There is a huge gap between the discs, it needs to be closer on are end, and possibly just cost more endurance. Only time I lose a lot of end is when I use Emphatic Fury. Other than that, endurance is too abundant, let us use it some more than we are at the moment.

Khauruk · May 07, 2008, 04:00:19 AM

I'm locking this thread now as it has mainly run it's course, and will attempt to summarize it somewhat in the opening post (last couple weeks of classes, so not much time right now).

I'll also be tossing in some "negative" feedback on some of the suggestions, as to why you shouldn't expect to see some of the requests (Call of the Wild, second defensive disc, large double attack boost). Well, maybe I won't...some say I'm too negative already :).

Either way, thanks for the feedback, and I hope that it is/has been read.

Once again, Jeb - thanks for forwarding this. There'll be some more specific spawn threads on some of these issues, so look for those hopefully this weekendish.