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Author Topic: Burn dps in raids  (Read 37302 times)

Offline Latang

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Burn dps in raids
« on: January 26, 2009, 01:27:09 AM »
There are SO many different variables involved in selecting the right disc order when doing a dps burn. Group makeup, who's at raid, what buffs you can get. I understand that. But I don't usually have the time at raids to chat to whoever is in my group as to what order to do spires or epics or discs in to max dps.

Given that I have all spires, all 10 yrs vet aa's, BA maxed, GBA, Bestial emp, attack warders, spirit frenzy, all pet dps aa's maxed, all my dps aa's maxed (except roar of thunder), and can put myself in whatever group i need to for a raid, how should I be setting up hotkeys and timing them for max dps? I want to be consistantly near the top in my guilds parses so I can show up the monks and bers and rogs who are slacking. (mainly monks really)

Any ideas? Oh, using Engineers workgrips mainhand, screwdriver from breakneck in offhand

I based this request on this post in the berserker forum, http://www.goberserker.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5437

edit: Spells too!
« Last Edit: January 26, 2009, 02:07:16 AM by Latang »

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Offline Inphared

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #1 on: January 26, 2009, 03:29:31 AM »
Good group: anything with a bard. They give us the most return with overhaste + arcane aria + spell focus aura.

Best group: Shaman, Bard, Berserker

The first thing I'd like to do is cover Intensity of the Resolute. As it stands, the damage modification portions do not stack with either of our disciplines, so it's basically a disc in itself. Unfortunately, most burn scenarios do not last long enough to justify it with itself. For cases like these, I stack Intensity and EF for the +crit portions, to maximize that disc, but I am losing the damage mod portions.

Having an enchanter cast manaflare on you is (usually) very easy, as they should be paired with caster DPS to receive the MF aura. They should always have a room in a rotation, thus you should always be able to get it.

Casting spells should never, ever stop. Your five main spells are obviously our top three nukes, Frozen Venom, and Yowl, but with Manaflare, you should have atleast one DoT memmed. None of these spells should ever be up - you should always be locking them out, casting insta-DoT's in the mean time to proc manaflare for easy damage.

For optimal burn sequences, you should wait for the following before discing:

1) Harrow and FS are both ready to fire
2) Circle of Power, Shaman Epic, Bard Epic, Frenzy of Spirit, and First Spire are on you
3) Your tank is actually surviving so that you don't get roflstomped when no other tank is ready to pick up your mob.

Once those three are ready, you hit empathic fury. Immediately after you hit it and retarget your mob (which should take less than half a second), Harrow and FS go off. Assuming you time it well enough, you can get three FS's off during Empathic before it fades, as opposed to the old two. As always, you should NOT stop casting during this - you gain more damage from the spells you cast, as opposed to the damage you would have gained by not casting and swinging weapons.

After that, your better judgment has to come into play. Do you wait for epics to refresh before you hit BA, or do you hit it right after EF fades? If the fight will last long enough, you should wait, for optimal DPS. If the fight will end before 3 minutes has expired, hit BA and ride out the rest of the epics to milk the damage from them. Don't wait for FS/Harrow to repop before you hit it, because the gains you'll get from non-special attacks will be better than if you had waited since they're stacked with shaman/bard epic.

Another important thing is how you start the fight - DO NOT USE ABILITIES that will NOT refresh before the fight is over - use the ones that WILL. The sooner you use a 30 second ability, or spell, the sooner it refreshes, thus the more damage you can get from it. ALWAYS lead a fight with Yowl and Nukes, and save stuff like Attack of the Warders and BP clicks for when those spells are cooling down.

I'm probably forgetting something and I'm exhausted - ask if anything is unclear.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 04:07:50 PM by Inphared »

Offline Karve

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2009, 01:02:43 PM »
Yeah, give us your best raid spell line up please =)

I ask cos I had 3 years off and skipped buying a bunch of spells (and some tomes) in my efforfets to hit 85. Level > anything else right ;)

So It'd be useful to see what you prefer so that I can try that and see if it works for me .. I'm really open to suggestions as my raiding time is < 20 hours to date.
I also need to look at what aa abilities I'm missing, the most notable being feral swipe lol.... playstyes vary but raiding is too much fun to miss out on.

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Offline kindarring2

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #3 on: January 26, 2009, 02:03:07 PM »
My spell line up for burns is
#1 posion dot
#2 posion dot
#3 ice nuke
#4 ice nuke
#5 posion nuke
#6 yowl
#7 SE
#8 heal
#9 fero
#10 pet (taking damage spell)

I did not name the spells cuz it depends on your lvl. This is not my order I use but show you the main ones you need. There are 6 dps spells you should have up tho.

ALSO if you doa hotkey on  empathic fury it helps a ton.
/disc empathic fury
pause 1
/assist

I also tie my frenzy/spire/attack of warders/GBA all to same hotkey this helps a ton also. Now 2 of those you can cast every 10 mins and  2 u can cast every 5 so know when they refresh. Just a little help.....
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Offline Inphared

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #4 on: January 26, 2009, 03:42:00 PM »
My spell lineup is probably crazy and whack to most of you.

Poison DoT
Promised
Tri`Qaras
Heal
Fero
Ice Nuke
Ice Nuke
Bite
Yowl
Poison DoT

Don't ask. I don't know either.

Offline Karve

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #5 on: January 26, 2009, 04:12:40 PM »
OK, heal .. seriously ? (or is this pet heal in which case its slightly more understandable). I mean even with a good smattering of aa's our heal is laughable in group scenario. (unless you can reliably crit for ~10k with all aa's .. working on them but still several hundred to go).

Keep em coming, great infos thanks.
ps makes me feel like I'm nearly as weird as Inphared :)

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Offline Inphared

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #6 on: January 26, 2009, 04:46:15 PM »
If you don't have a heal up and your healer gets fucked in the pooper by an add, what do you do?

Offline kindarring2

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #7 on: January 26, 2009, 06:53:20 PM »
Agree with Inph. I do not care that my heal does 3k 7k on crit sometimes more sometimes less but thats enough to keep me or someone alive if needed. I used my heal last night i'd say atleast 12 times. This was do sometimes tho players DA firing but keep a heal still going so when it went off they would get it. WE do everything with our class. The list is very long most then any other class. So yes heal and a reg heal is one of them.
Gimpbstlord  dam i need to update

Kindo dam i need to update

Offline Latang

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 08:54:06 PM »
Golden information guys, this is exactly the sorta stuff I needed. Raiding is on hold for a coupla more days til chinese new year is over, but then I'll let you know how it goes.

Big thanks

Train Engineer, Chief Hermit of <Mystic Nobles>

Offline Codak

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2009, 12:08:35 PM »
OK, heal .. seriously ? (or is this pet heal in which case its slightly more understandable). I mean even with a good smattering of aa's our heal is laughable in group scenario. (unless you can reliably crit for ~10k with all aa's .. working on them but still several hundred to go).

Heals are a huge help with are class cuz we pretty much can doit it all except pull
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Offline Karve

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 06:50:37 PM »
Ok fair do on having it loaded, I kind of wasn't expecting to see you leet raiding types with a 2k heal and everyone buffed > 30k, I have mine memmed permanently tho, even if its just for that warm fuzzy feeling in some groups lol.

I've been beating the heal aa's for ages, and have recently seen crits for 6k+ which nearly makes it viable, I still have a whole boatload to go but theyre coming fairly fast on 90% -> aa.


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Offline kindarring2

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 09:25:45 PM »
Any questions you may have on what should be done used paths to take whatever. We all are here to help no matter if we have 40k hp's or 10k all is to better our class. Better beast out there make us all look good. Also any Great beast looking to app to high end (we did server first on SoD final kill) raiding and like only raiding 4-6 days and 7:30-10:30 est PM me and we can talk (talking does not mean you would be put out there noone needs to know you are even looking into it). But at anytime anyone can send me a tell ;tell maelin.kindarring
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Offline Hzath

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2009, 09:28:40 AM »
#1 poison nuke
#2 cold nuke
#3 heal
#4 slow (non damage agro for adds)
#5 yowl
#6 cold nuke
#7 poison dot
#8 poison dot
#9 SE
#10 promised

I know its definitely weird, but it made sense as it evolved over time. 

My strategy is basically the same as Inphared's (I'll give him credit for helping me with it).  The biggest thing is just cast cast cast, when I look at parses and see why some people are lower than others (similarly for why people prefer a certain shaman/cleric) its usually related to how often they cast spells.  People continually casting more consistently parse higher and are more preferred group healers, if you're lazy and have 20 second breaks between spells you aren't trying your hardest.
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Offline Inphared

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2009, 06:12:07 PM »
I've received private messages asking if this information can be used for applicants and posting on other guild websites.

This information is publicly viewable. Just redirect to this thread or copy/paste it, giving credit to those that you borrow from.

Offline Blarp

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Re: Burn dps in raids
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2009, 06:37:36 PM »
I have found that  i tend to pull argo to much but i used to be a top DPS class in all the guilds i played in.  when a beastlord with subpar weapons talking in TSS raids( b4 i left)  with a Demi weapon and  epic 2.0 no damg aug's can place in the top 5 to top 3 Aboult every fight ( and die 1/2 the time)  that is saying something for our class.

 My spell  line up

 1) Heals
 2) Slow( adds or even  for when they get get  a mob slowed rare but happens)
 3) Cold DD
 4) P DD
 5) Cold DD
 6) Puma(  aka new ones lol)
 7) Howl
 8) Fero
 9)  SE/ dot maybe depends on fight
 10) pet heal.

  i could run this all night in raids for  a solid 6 to 7 min and never run out of mana smashing  nukes puma everything as needed. go go focused lol


 Also i have Everysingle melee atk on its oun otkey rake jagged kick  everything.yes it takes up room but you dont get lazy. i can use my left hand to do 95% of  my melee atk's i rarly use my mouse to do ng othere them maybe get a better look at things/ loot.   i would be lost without my ketboard. and no its not a G15. just a personal favored sinple keyboerd. it works well and  when running 2-3 toons on 1 pc  full size no eq win. i can switch screens in a blink of an eye.  and back after i heal mez or what ever was needed and right back into the action b4 anythin repops to use.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2009, 08:20:29 PM by Blarp »