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Pet dmg

Started by yravon, March 10, 2010, 02:21:51 PM

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yravon

Is this where i get to complain about the laughable dps our pet does? :)

Old Keg

Our pets suck at high level?
(<-out of date returning player who just hit 64)

Kanan

The relative amount of dmg they put out has decreased as time has progressed.  They also have the survivability of a wet noodle in a F5 tornado.
Kez's Magelo 85 "Arch Animist" of Final Empire on Povar

Latang

I realise it's not fashionable to say we're doing okay, but... Provided you keep one of your 12 spell slots for Bulwark of Triwhatever, and a hotkey for your pet heals (another spell slot for heal if you want, tho I don't bother) survivability isn't that bad. Yes, it hurts our dps to heal them or keep them alive, but the only time my pet dies is when I'm not paying attention on raids and forget to companions relocation him to the other side of the mob and he eats enrage.

That's EM8 focused, but they are still pretty good...

Train Engineer, Chief Hermit of <Mystic Nobles>

Old Keg

So are end game pets gimp these days?  Or is that just hyperbole?

What percentage of a beasts power is the pet towards 85 these days?

Man, pets being a major, key, powerful component of us was a big reason of why I rolled a beast.  If the pet is more incidental than powerful I might reroll.  I've been wanting to try a shadowknight for ages.

How are mage pets doing?

Hzath

Beastlord pets get worse in power relative to the beastlord the more powerful he becomes.  The reason is pet foci don't increase pet power as fast as weapons or spells and spell foci increase those forms of damage.

It varies drastically how much of our damage comes from pets but a very rough breakdown is

5-15% warder
5-15% short duration pets
10-35% spells
35-70% melee+special attacks

This is speaking as a raider, I would imagine group geared pets doing a bit more but not much. 

I think mages would like a bit more power from their pets (it always happens on non-level cap raising expansions) but it's safe to say theirs are much better than ours at the moment.
Beastlord Community Round Table representative.  Feel free to PM me or contact me in game (Drinal.Hzathz) about anything you think needs attention.

Karve

You need to add that although pets aren't "that" bad when you have raid gear and EMVIII, they royally suck when you have extremely few AA's and no EM.

Professional Mad Bastard.

AbyssalMage

Our pets suck, just admit it. But then again, we don't suck as bad as we did ages ago so there are also trade-offs, admit that also.

Not sure exactly where we stand (after Underfoot I & II) but from all the previouse messages that were left, Rangers were ahead of us by a nice % which isn't good.  Unless your a few unspecified people on these boards who seem to have better DPS than most of us combined

(Just giving a few BST's on here a hard time. They definately put in the time to get the returns they get)
Grimwar
81 Beastlord
Theris-Thule...errr....Prexus

Umlat

Warder damage has a bunch of major issues.
1) Growl line is still broken - the 20% damage bonus for pet, which has been constant since 69, doesn't stack with the bonus from the pet haste line spells (ie Unrivalled Rapidity) which is up to 12 to 14% now. So instead of a 20% increase, we only see a 6% to 8% increase depending on rank. I am positive it used to stack. It would have been changed between July 2008 and Dec 2008 I believe (at the same time Bestial Alignment and Bestial Fury stopped stacking), since it seems to have been changed while I was taking a break. The math isn't very precise, since I'm not sure on the order of operations for the different calculations. But for an EM8 Spirit of Hoshkar with rk3 UR, I see a max damage of 259 (269 w/growl), with a max crit of 401 (421 w/growl). Increasing the % damage bonus on growl would put my warder at ~259 (304 w/growl) and max crit of 401 (456 w/growl). It's not much, but it would be a start.

2) Procs - Anybody have any numbers here? I know that as of latest patch, it should still be possible to stack a ridiculous number of procs on the same attacks. Vaxtzn, Epic, Snare/Fellgrip/Friendly, Spire, BP click, Pet Weapon procs. No doubt Lynx from shaman and the whatever from Bard can be stuck in there too. no surprise on the numbers, since "Oh, give the Bsts a new proc ability for their warders." seems to be the preferred alternative when "Oh, Bsts? Give them a different kind of pet heal for a new ability." gets overused. Although this might explain why the scaled wolf has those freezing issues. Much like the little angels and devils that pop up on either shoulder in Looney Tunes, all the buffs might be popping up and confusing the issue by shouting "No! Proc ME!" "No, me!!" causing them to stand still until it gets sorted out  :roll:

In any case, the devs really need to look at modifying how our warder's procs work. Having the epic proc set up so it adds its 200 dmg to our main proc line while increeasing its proc rate instead of being a separate proc would be nice. Changing things like spire proc bp clicky and things like snare slow or heals being sympathtetic procs linked to our main buff line would kill the clutter and probably eliminate some conflicts and such.

Cont'd...

Umlat

...

3) Gear - I can't type what I really want to, since it's extremely profane, horribly impolitic and not very nice. Just assume it's something that would cause half of Victorian England to faint and let it go at that.

Any sort of "exclusive" ability in EQ is meant more as an incentive to include a class in groups, raids, etc. than as a club to be used as a means of extortion. Similarly, simply ignoring requests for those abilities is just as bad in its own way. Abuse and/or neglect has its consequences. Sometimes, its simply a matter of the evolving to the point where continuing restriction of a type of ability is just not worth it. Generally the consequence is a loss of exclusivity. This doesn't mean the original ability becomes meaningless. It simply means that substitutes or alternatives of a useful but inferior level of ability become available. PoK, the guild hall and a number of potions, AAs and clickable items for ports, potions and such for ports, crack and haste in a bottle, etc. are some examples.

Summoned pet gear is at this point, IMO. Trying to get a set of gear off a mage is 3 to 4 spells and 2 to 3 bags now.
Death rates are an issue, particularly for beastlords, as we need to melee without heavy armour and don't have much in the way of an ability to avoid the issue. Enchanters get stasis and their CC abilities, SKs/Necros get FD for them and pets, Mages pets are pre geared except for weapons. Even zerkers get an AA to get out of combat (Don't get the rationale there). Given all the new escape abilities across classes, being staked out as a sacrificial lamb has become far too common, since an add or two might make people break a nail or something. Without a mage right there, you won't be keeping gear on your warder. Running to a mage in zone at another camp isn't generally an option, given the potential for picking up a mob or 2 running there and back. Lack of gear lowers DPS - via a loss of procs (probably not a whole lot given previous issue) and the increased need to heal pet, esp. if warder is OTing something.

I'd rather have a way to summon a 10 slot bag of gear for warder as a substitute., whether it is via an AA spell or A TSed item clicky. 2 weapons, 8 pieces of gear, (belt and 7 visible slots or pehaps a muzzle instead of wrist). Restrict this gear to warders only and tailor it to suit a warder without overpowering mage gear. Kill the weapon procs, emphasize extra damage. Stuff like that. Could even give us this instead of friendly pet - Put hand of holy vengeance on the weapons and it still adds a heal compoent :)


4) Blood Frenzy - Change the effect of taste of blood to proc on crits instead of kill shots and make the blood frenzy effect add +x skill damage for the duration to all skills as an effect.  Or, imake the blodd frenzy  proc a special attack, either way it will actually increase the pets damage unlike the current ability

Gatash

Just a quick question about what you said Umlat regarding pet proc stacking.

I was under the impression that BP clickies and and epic would overwrite existing procs, hence I have an old TSS BP clicky I have never used and I haven't bothered to do the final fight for epic 1.5 lol.

Are there any restrictions to the output of procs; Would using BP (200dmg) reduce the proc rate of Lairn or do they both stack perfectly? Also, I had always just assumed that Hobble of Spirits competed with Lairn and so didn't use it when I wanted to do maximum damage.

Kinda fundamental questions for me to be asking at this stage of the game heh.

Thanks in advance.

nedoirah

Only problem with asking for stuff for our pets is mages will beg for it too. They whine like little b!@#$ till they get it. For once I'd like to see SoE stand up and say this is class exclusive and that's the final word on it.

Prime example: we got the promised heal and mages whined and cried till they got it even though it's a ~PRIEST~ type heal.

Makes me so sick that we can't get anything to distinguish our class cause others whine and cry to get it as well. We can't even have our spiritual light line to ourselves cause they turned it into a f-ing potion.

I'm going to stop posting now before I get really rude.

Grbage

Quote from: Old Keg on March 10, 2010, 05:10:02 PM
Our pets suck at high level?
(<-out of date returning player who just hit 64)

Warders put out roughly half the dps of mage air pets. Even worse, secondary class pets put out almost as much dps as the warder.

Defensively the pet was sucking pretty darn hard but finally got a needed boost after all sorts of parsing and over 1+ years. Now they will tank almost as good as a mage air pet if kitted out by a mage....to bad we all don't have a pocket mage to carry along with us.
Grbage Heep
85 Beast of Torv

k9wazere

Levels 9-60 was when I loved my warder the most. 75+ he's become somewhat anemic, frail and tired, and I'm considering having him put down. I think he's just sorf of lost the will to live.

Anyways... I liked (and would to return to) a more even partnership between Bst and warder, rather than the totally lop-sided usefulness ratio we have currently.

bladepaw

speaking of pet damage I never really analysed the damage of my warder.  I am trying to figure out  damage for  fabled weapon. it seems I get mostly 1 pet with weapon affinity maxed.  I have a cold iron morningstar which is my best weapon but i find i need to put that in my 2ndary so I can proc more pets with fabled.--- still cant tell how they do as you can't parse them