Is this where we are headed?

[Sikkem]

http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=162791#top

The beastlord class is so bad right now we don't even allow them on our raids and have 0 intention of recruiting them. - Shiftee Realm of Insanity

And the website is a bit funnier though sadly has an element of truth it appears.
http://roiguild.org/2010/02/16/no-beastlords-no-vah-shir-dead-bugs/

Zero beastlords in the guild and a low priority for recruitment.

[Lathon]

That is funny , just shows how blind some people can be. I can bet money that i can out dps prolly half of the classes in that guild. It doesn't help that they got blasted for hacks not too long ago during UF raids so to me thier credability is shot....

[Sikkem]

My worry though is that other guilds tend to follow the thinking of the higher guilds.

[wildwaters]

Hah, our guild has 1 beastlord and 2 recruits atm. I think most guilds raiding tower and UF like to maintain 2-3 high dps beastlords.

I know beasts can do alot of things in a pinch but the raids with all these inflated hps and serious DPS out put on the tanks really require high parses from the guild as a whole. The result is that you need your beastlords to parse well.

You'll notice the only actual reason for not recruiting that he mentioned was that beastlords need more burst dps. Saying a class is broken without giving any support to your statement really doesn't mean anything at all. More than likely they have had poor experiences with their beast recruits and just said, "well we don't necessarily need se and if one more wizard doubles the parse lets not put any effort into recrutiing em." You'll notice that even though the beastlord is low on priority it is still open.

I was also amused that it was a paladin complaining about beastlord burst dps hehe. Dumb shit.

Anyway I think your fears are unfounded. I think you guys do need to push in one direction though in future expansions. Get serious upgrades in one aspect of your class and stick with it. Keep pushing for Jolt too hehe.

[Sikkem]

Hah, our guild has 1 beastlord and 2 recruits atm. I think most guilds raiding tower and UF like to maintain 2-3 high dps beastlords.

I know beasts can do alot of things in a pinch but the raids with all these inflated hps and serious DPS out put on the tanks really require high parses from the guild as a whole. The result is that you need your beastlords to parse well.

You'll notice the only actual reason for not recruiting that he mentioned was that beastlords need more burst dps. Saying a class is broken without giving any support to your statement really doesn't mean anything at all. More than likely they have had poor experiences with their beast recruits and just said, "well we don't necessarily need se and if one more wizard doubles the parse lets not put any effort into recrutiing em." You'll notice that even though the beastlord is low on priority it is still open.

I was also amused that it was a paladin complaining about beastlord burst dps hehe. Dumb shit.

Anyway I think your fears are unfounded. I think you guys do need to push in one direction though in future expansions. Get serious upgrades in one aspect of your class and stick with it. Keep pushing for Jolt too hehe.

Seeing who there last 2 beastlords where though you would think they know what a well played beastlord can do. Also seeing as these two beastlords both were last on within a couple of months of each other the question is were they pushed by "not being allowed on raids"?

I still think it could be something to watch out for, look at how quickly enchanters started disappearing from the game once raid guilds stopped recruiting them.

[wildwaters]

Seeing who there last 2 beastlords where though you would think they know what a well played beastlord can do. Also seeing as these two beastlords both were last on within a couple of months of each other the question is were they pushed by "not being allowed on raids"?

What?

I still think it could be something to watch out for, look at how quickly enchanters started disappearing from the game once raid guilds stopped recruiting them.

Do you raid high end or are you getting your information from outdated rosters and eqplayers? Not to pick on yah, just askin >.<

http://roiguild.org/2010/02/16/no-beastlords-no-vah-shir-dead-bugs/
The very link you posted shows enchanters as low priority but open.
Triton is recruiting enchanters
Triality is recruiting enchanters
RoV is open to all classes
Fu World Order is recruiting enchanters (which I believe is the reincarnation of club fu?)

I think the reason alot of guilds don't recruit chanters is because they have a full enchanter team. That being said we just gained 2 or 3 chanters in the last year in Conviction. Some of them have dropped play time but our main guys show up alot and we have a pretty good chanter roster now. Not only do we like the buffs but we use em every chance we get to mez or chain stun stuff. Heck they are used heavily when we attempt arthicrex raids.

[nedoirah]

I just finished reading that thread. I think the main issue is the blurring of class lines that has most everyone upset atm. Personally I would rather see us have more class defined aa/spells tuned towards maintaining our beastlord lore and aspect than getting stuff that doesn't fit with our class. Every class has its strengths and weaknesses which are what makes a class a class.

Giving us a fd (play possum) is in fact well within our class deffinition imo simply because it is our way to emulate the animals. It also fits simply because our parent class is a monk.

That doesn't mean I want the ~animal~ named attacks monks get just because it's an ~animal~ attack. (I.E. eagle strike)

Are we bad off atm? Yes. Is there room for improvement? Deffinitely.

Instead of asking for more, let's ask to focus our current abilities into true class defining abilities. (I know we don't need more pet heals)

Roar of thunder has been long ignored imo. Last I remember the nuke component outweighs the deagro so we asked for another direct deagro and we were given 3 deagro abilities all that share the same 1 min timer. Those were given upgrades but still not very reliable to lose agro. (I use them paired with the deagro aug from the boomerang task) I still generate enough agro to steal it from the tanks.

Heals. With the other parent class a priest class, why shouldn't we get good heals? I like many others here don't want 10 or 20 heals, just a few really good ones. IMO I would love to see a good player heal, a good promised heal for pet, good regular pet heal (the spell heal and aa mend), and a decent HoT for pet. Forget about the rest. I don't mean to take them away but refocus on those 4 previously mentioned heals.

Nukes. The addition of frozen venom had seriously helped us IMO. Let's stick with the 3 primary nukes, poison, ice and the combo nukes and upgrade those into a functioning part of our spell casting abilities.

DoTs. Making them insta-cast (at least as far as I know the 2 highest lvl spells) was a nice idea. The drawback I could see is the lack of ability to see if they failed (fizzled) or were resisted (quite often were resisted and I haven't played with the resist reducing aa yet) unless you moved the messages to another window. I haven't played with my DoTs since I got frozen venom but I do know that base damage is only 453 for the poison dot rkII and 324 for the disease dot rk II without mods. Not to mention they don't stack with lower level version of themselves (unless that has been changed?).

Pets. I know this is a sore subject for everyone who plays a bst. I agree our pets need to be brought back in line with current content. The swarm pet spell works fine as far as I can tell and the haergen's feralgia was a decent idea if only for the moments when we aren't using the other discs. I haven't bought the new ranks of the aa swarm pets (I don't know how strong they are)  but I think it was reduced from 4 to 3 pets summoned. (someone please correct me if I'm wrong)

Melee. We could use a tweaking in our melee strengths too. Give s push in the direction monks are currently at. Not up to their levels but closer since we are part monk. I'm not asking for the hundred different attacks they get but raise our skills to where they need to be. I think mainly it's our melee aa's that need work.

As far as I can tell this is where our strengths lie. We should try to focus on getting those brought back in line with current content so we can become the class we were meant to be.

[Inphared]

It's a joke. Realm of Insanity has had a longstanding artificial hatred towards Vah Shir (which, for the most part, happen to be Beastlords). The last Beastlords in the guild were worth mentioning, but one quit and the other mainchanged.

It's not about hate, it's about finding a good player.

[Mazame]

wildwaters  with all due respect your not a bst.   you were a raiding bst and you left the class to become an SK you have said how much you don't like playing your bst any more and your current box is a necro not your bst. and last I check you not played you not flagged your bst for UF  so your a pre Sod bst.  with how much you don't enjoy playing a bst telling other how great the class is and where it should head and what it needs just feels a bit two faced to me.

the last thing us bst need is Jolt period.  yes we asked for it and pushed for it but if you all so read the last 30 post we currently have 4 deaggro  lines adding in a 5th is NOT what any of us playing bst want.. what we want is the current De aggro tools we have to work correctly so we don't need more of them.

as for the enchanter  dropping the game I will agrree for a few years there was a time when ppl stopped playing chanters due to all the nerf and low need for them on raids ( 1-2 chanters was at one point over kill in a raid ) with the new UF raids chanter have become a key part and having 3-4 is great.  you can also Wildwater look at it like you look at sk and with every nerf you go off how your quitting because the broke this or that.  chanters did the same and for that matter most classes have had the ups and down over the years but those that LOVE their class will stick with it no matter how bad it get and the same will be true for the Bst those that love it will stick with it.

As for Bst on raid  yes we can be may thing and for us to focus on just one would piss me off if I wanted to focus on just DPS I would of rolled a wizard. if I wanted to tank I roll a tank if I wanted to heal I play a cleric. if I wanted to buff I play a shammy. most rolls a bst can do can be better preformed by another class better. so for some guild to say bst are not Needed I can agree. but for those that know the power of a bst  knowing the bst can fill many rolls in a time when we have fewer and fewer ppl playing it nice that a bst can step in and fill any spot. ya I could have 6 toons and spend time gearing them all so that I can fill with what the raid need or I can play my bst and gear him up and he can fill the hole of any raid and that makes bst kick ass the fact they can do so much.


As an active Main bst I don't want Focus I don't want to become a one trick pony I want to be the bst I always loved and be able to do what I always have. I don't need New tricks I just want my old trick to be upgraded.

buffs line has suffered need Upgrade
nukes line upgrade
dots ( make them land or get rid of them chain casting them to get them to land builds a lot of hate and burn a lot of mana )
Weaken lines not been upgraded since the 50's
Slow line need a upgrade ( maybe mix slow and weaken into the same spell )
Warder need UPGRADE he is our = lets see it
De aggro all could use upgrades ( cut down the cool down time or make the deaggro effect greater )
Heals we used to be the best healing pet class now mages heal better then us and when we were born mages didn't even know how to heal. point being Improve our Heals ( we don't need to be main healers but we should be greater then mages )


I love the bst class but upgrading what we have rather then trying to give us new toys would be the path I love to see bst go. we don't need focus  we just need upgrades.

[kharthai]

Firestormers is recruiting an enchanter as well.

We're still a good class if played well, especially for lower dps guilds for whom fights will be stretched out more.  I don't have a problem making it on our combined or "sustained" parses, usually pretty high up there unless I'm exiled to a caster group (which does happen sometimes).  For 60-100 sec burns it's a lot harder to compete.  Who knows what the next expansion may bring, I guess.

Overall I thought Shiftee's other post was pretty much spot on (about dps and people whining about fd), er this one:
http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?start=30&topic_id=162791#2437852


Edit: As far as deaggro, we don't really need much more there, especially if this chameleon strike does much of anything, and w/FD.  Some AA's to improve FD would be cool of course.

[Hzath]

We shine in mid-tier guilds, they have lower dps and the "burns" go more into the sustained realm and we look pretty appealing.  At the high end we're pretty much peaked in power right now REALATIVE to the other melee classes, we have pretty much all our spell/AA and many of them are still stuck with tower weapons.  It's going to get ugly when melee get their hands on brells temple, or worse convorteum weaponry.

I won't be surprised to see lots of classes hitting 30k, but if I break 20k this expansion (without some sort of unforseen upgrades) I'll be pretty shocked/happy with myself.

[Sikkem]

I still think it could be something to watch out for, look at how quickly enchanters started disappearing from the game once raid guilds stopped recruiting them.

Do you raid high end or are you getting your information from outdated rosters and eqplayers? Not to pick on yah, just askin >.<

Definatley not high end here. I was actually referring to when was it TSS I believe when enchanters had sunk to such a state no one wanted them and they started disappearing from the game.

[Sikkem]

It's a joke. Realm of Insanity has had a longstanding artificial hatred towards Vah Shir (which, for the most part, happen to be Beastlords). The last Beastlords in the guild were worth mentioning, but one quit and the other mainchanged.

It's not about hate, it's about finding a good player.

Thanks for clearing that up Inph.

[wildwaters]

you have said how much you don't like playing your bst any more and your current box is a necro not your bst. and last I check you not played you not flagged your bst for UF  so your a pre Sod bst.  with how much you don't enjoy playing a bst telling other how great the class is and where it should head and what it needs just feels a bit two faced to me.

My current box is a zerker actually and it changes day to day and situation to situatiopn. There are still times I find the beast extremely useful and so I still play the beastlord. I have flagged him for tier 8 and maybe partial tier 9, ran some living legacy stuff with him recently, have purchased some tower items for him, allthough relatively few. In fact I was just playing him  a week or so ago without boxing... had a tank in group and brought beast to slow, buff and dps.

What I hate is raiding my beastlord... I said I hated it - I never said I wasn't any good at it. Buff requests were filled quickly, I patched when needed, I paragoned healers and knights when needed and I put out good dps numbers for the gear and aa I had at the time. I will not compare my dps to any fully towered beast but it was good for what I had.

With all due respect to you lets not bring our personal disagreements to the boards here. There are people here who play beastlords as alts that give feed back and if the community disagrees with them then the points are made without attacking them as alts and "pre-sod" beastlords.

The fact is I think a large portion of the community would agree with me that they would like a bump to burn dps as well as ONE VERY GOOD deaggro ability or significant upgrades to our current de-aggro abilities. Jolt would have been a lot better for dropping aggro without interrupting your melee/spell threading. Instead they gave you FD which admittedly has gotten better with the 80% success rate and may have its purposes. The problem with FD is you won't be able to count on upgrades because they won't want you using it as a pulling tool... that is most likely the reason it had such a high failure rate initially.

Anyhow the point here for this thread is that the RoI thing was a joke and the raiding community as a whole values a well played beastlord.

[bobokatt1970]

I can't remember the last enchanter app we had. -- and as a result, we are suffering for it.  With UF, they have become highly sought after but even before, a well played chanter was always a great asset, to a group and a raid.  The top guilds on our server, Fu world Order (old Club Fu), RoV, Veeshan's Fury all want/need Chanters.

Bless those guilds that can afford to close applications to certain classes at this stage in EQ -- I tip my hat to you.  If they can field a full raid and even have sitouts, I can imagine they would want to stack it with the best possible DPS classes and maximum utility, period -- since DPS and plowing is king.  I would surmise that BST's and Chanters then become rather low on the priority.  However since most servers and most guilds are not in this position due to the state of EQ in general, I agree with Wildwaters that a well played BST (or any class for that matter), will always be valued.