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Author Topic: Paragon and Endurance.  (Read 4279 times)

Offline Umlat

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Paragon and Endurance.
« on: March 30, 2010, 06:25:41 pm »
OK. First off, this has been discussed and rejected before, but I think it is something that really needs to be re-evaluated.

Paragon of Spirits and Focused Paragon of Spirits should be given an endurance regeneration component for a number of reasons. In no particular order of importance :

1) Group/Raid desirability - Underfoot mobs are not nice. Huge damage amounts from melee and spells (several AEs), very high rate of summoning mobs, cramped environments that lead to strange pathing and adds, etc. increase the death rate of PCs. Being able to reduce the rez recovery time in the field for hybrids/melee classes would give us something a lot closer to unique to offer in groups/raids. An endurance component to PoS for raiding is something that's almost necessary now. Raid mobs can burn through tanks very quickly and a slow pickup will leave a number of non tanks dead very quickly. Endurance for Paragon/FPoS would give raids a chance to recover, by allowing us to jumpstart a tanks endurance enough that they can jump back into the fight and be able to disc a bit. From an inside the game perspective, being able to replenish endurance is an ability that would be highly sought after via research and experimentation, with even minimal success being of use.

2) For us -- Endurance replenishment for beastlords has become much more vital. Our melee disc attack burns through endurance noticeably now. Protective Spirit is used much more often. Also, the focus effect on the chest armor increase endurance use even more with empathic fury being able to refresh quicker. Further increases in endurance use are likely to be seen in the future, since we are in need of improved or more defensive disciplines to increase our survival rate. 12 seconds is not really long enough these days, given that it can take a tank longer than that to (re) the undivided attention of a foe, given our occasional damage spikes. After death and a rez, endurance is the killer for getting back into action in a decent interval. If you aren't outside where you can sit on a horse, resummoning and rebuffing  is not something that can be done while regaining endurance. This can often lengthen recovery time to a point that annoys groupmates, since the monk bard necro SK shm ber rng ench etc. were all able to survive since you were the only one left stuck in combat with the adds respawns or bad pull. Going through this 10 minute or more song and dance routine for several times in a row can waste far too much time. Not taking the time will often lead to even more deaths . Add the Raid OOc timer in and it gets worse, especially if tossing a buff resets the OOC timer as it sometimes does.

3) It just makes sense. - Not including Endurance regen in paragon is strange IMO. It's akin to being able to put in stiches and put a cast on someone in the ER, but not be able to provide them with oxygen if its needed.

4) Enjoyment - Reducing the recovery time from a solo/group/raid wipe will let people actually play more, rather than sitting around waiting. There is already ample amounts of hurry up and wait time in game, shaving some off with an endurance component for paragon isn't going to destroy the game. If a limit needs to be put on it, cap paragon's endurance regen effects at 33% or 50% of the targets max endurance. This will allow for quicker recovery from deaths etc., without providing an endless well of endurance to fuel constant discing.

If we can present a strong enough case it might even happen. Who knows? Maybe the horse will sing.

Offline Khauruk

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2010, 06:44:25 pm »
If we get this, end cost on melee things will increase to compensate, and other classes will end up getting a cast form of end regen, so we wouldn't be unique.
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Offline kharthai

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2010, 07:25:50 pm »
Can't read it all atm, I just hate the idea of every tom dick and harry melee spamming me with tells whenever they die or whatever.

Thought it was pretty funny that they made an endurance regen campfire though.

Edit:

I guess I just don't want to have to choose between helping a caster and a melee.  I wouldn't necessarily mind a "Paragon of Body" AA on its own timer that restored end, or hp and end.  (all this crap needs to be instant cast)  Of course if everyone else wants it (and you can hypnotize a dev into doing it), cool enough.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2010, 09:24:10 pm by kharthai »

Offline Grbage

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2010, 07:37:52 pm »
If we get this, end cost on melee things will increase to compensate, and other classes will end up getting a cast form of end regen, so we wouldn't be unique.

Don't forget handing it out in a bottle, that will be the natural progression.

Umlat, I don't disagree there is an imbalance in end cost vs regen but past experience has shown if regen is increased cost will be too. I would rather spend the time every expansion arguing for a decrease in cost then increase in regen.
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Offline Hzath

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2010, 08:28:03 pm »
I guess I just don't want to have to choose between helping a caster and a melee.  I wouldn't necessarily mind a "Paragon of Body" AA on its own timer that restored end, or hp and end.  (all this crap needs to be instant cast)  Of course if everyone else wants it (and you can hypnotize a dev into doing it), cool enough.

This is my issue with just requesting end added to regular paragons, we get put in the situation of "Do I paragon the rogue who suicided to trash mobs or the cleric who doesn't know what yalp is for?"

A new, additional paragon for endurance only could prove useful.  Like others have said though, it would probably just end up meaning an increase in endurance costs for everyone.
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Offline Razimir

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2010, 08:33:42 am »
I don't want to get enduregen paragon. It is pain enough already feed clerics, after getting an enduregen melees would be all over us aswell.

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Offline Blarp

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2010, 07:33:29 pm »
i could see a use for end on Paragon of psirits(group ONLY) thus we can MGB it when needed, personaly i dont want something we gota stop and target all melee and casters we all ready do. we would spend 50% the  feeding and or casting

Offline Dragonfangs

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2010, 01:44:37 am »
Yea, just adding it to the group paragon of spirits would be enough in most cases. By the time it comes for MGB paragon just about everyone could use it.

Having a seperate End paragon, if like focused on recast, tips to the "overpowered" aspect. I mean, tank dies, gets rezzed, tank yells " paragon me now you stupid beastlords" or how ever the person demands stuff. While useful it could cause more problems then it would solve to many.

The less time i have to spend hunting down people that need my targeted buffs the better. Less running = more dps, More dps is always a good thing.

Offline Lathon

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #8 on: April 09, 2010, 03:26:27 am »
i could see a use for end on Paragon of psirits(group ONLY) thus we can MGB it when needed, personaly i dont want something we gota stop and target all melee and casters we all ready do. we would spend 50% the  feeding and or casting

Exactly.. If End regen was added EVER to paragon it needs to be for the group only version, this way peeps know when it is MGB'ed or cast in group the timer is a longer one and used sparingly. The focused version can stay the same minus the boost i think para needs for the new content but leave end regen out of it becauseof the shorter timer

Offline wildwaters

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2010, 02:15:30 pm »
I think adding it to the group version would be pretty cool.

As far as making a separate line I can see alot of the issues but on the other hand it would increase desirability of beastlords in a raid setting. I know there are events where having a tank ready to go with in half the time he normally would be after dieing would be very helpful.

Offline Karve

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Re: Paragon and Endurance.
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2010, 11:17:07 am »
I had a rethink on this and an endurance aura would be leetest. Now who wants a bst ?

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