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Author Topic: Test notes 4/7  (Read 4471 times)

Thorgador

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Test notes 4/7
« on: April 13, 2010, 02:11:25 PM »
Quote
*** Items ***

- All Underfoot weapon procs have been modified to make them more consistent. In most cases effectiveness was increased, but there are instances where proc damage was lowered to allow weapons to fit better within their tier. This process will be repeated with most recent weapon procs as time allows.

*** Tradeskills ***

- Corrected the recipes for the new cultural armor seals.


*** Quests & Events ***

- Corrected an issue that was causing the Gold Plated Spiked Gear to ignore Dragons, Dragons, Dragons results for 2010.
- Corrected an issue with the Gold Clockwork Abacus that caused it to give the wrong Gold Plated Contact Spring in some instances. If you get a new abacus from the Reward Distribution Facilitator in the Plane of Knowledge you should get the correct item.
- Saria Everhot near the forge in Kernagir is able to re-forge some raid weapons - for a price.

- Underfoot raids have had another tuning pass:
- Fippy the Destroyer - Reduced Fippy's total HP and reduced Wild Rampage damage in phase 5.
- The Unburrowing - Reduced HP on main boss and adds.
- The Unburrowing - Reduced combat values on adds.
- Grunkuck the Beast - Increased the warning timers on two of the Beast's powers.
- Grunkuck the Beast - Reduced HP and combat values on both beasts.
- Grunkuck the Beast - Increased minimum timers on most abilities.
- Grunkuck the Beast - Reduced damage on Vicious Strike and Otherworldly Explosion.
- Masked Invaders - Reduced Brutale's hit points, increased his power-up time, and prevented more than one from spawning at once.
- Masked Invaders - Reduced Excavator's hit points and prevented more than one from spawning at once.
- Wrath of Brath - Reduced Brath's combat values once his regeneration is removed.
- Wrath of Brath - Reduced combat values on all types of adds.
- Wrath of Brath - Only one Basher will spawn with each wave of Autarchian dwarves protecting Brath.
- Guardians of the Hive - Reduced hit points and attack values on each guardian.
- Guardians of the Hive - Increased the cast time for the healing mushrooms.
- Cliknar Queen - Made the young queens less dangerous.
- Cliknar Queen - Reduced HP of the Queen and increased the minimum interval on her AoE.
- A Cunning Plan - Reduced combat values of all NPCs involved in the event.


*** NPC ***

- Raised the cap on rogue's triple attack skill to 350 at level 85. Rogues can now start gaining triple attack at level 46.


*** AA ***

- Reduced the reuse timer on Inquisitor's Judgment (Paladin) to 12 minutes.
- Reduced the reuse timer on Flurry of Life (Cleric) to 15 minutes.

- Fixed issues with Shadowknight AA Scourge Skin that caused it to fade faster than intended and to fail to stack with Banshee Aura.

- The hundred hands component of bards' quicktime AA is no longer boosted by singing skill.


*** Achievements ***

- Renamed the achievement "Master of the Underfoot" to "Sentinel of the Underfoot"
- Created a new achievement "Master of the Underfoot". A reward will be granted to those who complete this achievement.
- Changed existing meta achievements in the Underfoot: General to show complete lists of their requirements instead of the single checkbox they had shown previously.


Quote
- Raised the cap on rogue's triple attack skill to 350 at level 85. Rogues can now start gaining triple attack at level 46.

Some classes get much love and others not so much eh?  guess what, a melee classes showing so high on parses gets this, why bsts could not get similar for DA and TA? even if it were tuned down, a max skill of 250 for TA and 300 for DA at 85?

On another note ... has anyone tested the reworked FD aa supposed to have a 80% success rate (1 min reuse supposed to be)? I have heard it would fail more when you have multiple mobs on you.

Offline Umlat

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Re: Test notes 4/7
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2010, 05:21:16 PM »
Triple Attack is something to be looked at of course, but you have to remember our Double Attack skill does not work the same as a regular melee class. Bestial Frenzy give a 3% bonus to our chances to double attack per rank. Ferocity VI+ gives another 18%.  Direwolf Totem of Battle/Predator spell line give another 6% or 4% (won't stack with each other). That's upwards of 63% chance to Double Attack before you even look at what our actual (admittedly meager) skill of 75 (max) does.

Yes, we need increases to Double and Triple attack. Double attack should have its own "Burst of Power" type AA, with at minimum enough ranks at any time to keep its cap ahead of Triple Attack by at least 5. As for Triple Attack, I think I would prefer to see an AA line similar to Bestial Frenzy rather than a massive increase to the skill cap itself. It would keep it consistent with the existing way Double Attack increases and is more likely to make it through any sort of veto process. Even if it's only 3 ranks or 5 ranks initially, once it's there its far easier to tack on more ranks than it is to boost skill cap directly.

Where we need our skill caps boosted directly and immediately is DODGE and BLOCK. I looked at the skill caps for melee/hybrids. Every melee/hybrid character class that wears metal armor is AT LEAST as good at dodging as we are. Monks of course have the highest dodge skill. Our defensive abilities are mostly avoidance based and not mitigation based like the chain/plate classes, who place more reliance on heavier armor. Our ability to block with a shield, if we choose to equip one, is inferior to that of pure casters, never mind melee and hybrid classes. So, if we rely on avoidance so much more than many other classes, why are we at the bottom of the heap for actual dodge skill? :?

At the very least, our Dodge cap should be boosted (or be boostable by AAs) by a minimum of 25 points to a base skill cap of 405. This would put us on par with the warrior and rogue, but still behind monk, which puts us on the low end where we should be. Our Block skill could use a boost as well, gaining an additional 20 or 25 points, most likely via AAs. This would still leave us 25 to 30 points behind monk for skill. We should be able to dodge, block and riposte in a 360 degree circle around us, since our weapons tend to be smaller and faster on average and the fact that our lighter armor allows for a greater range of motion compared to someone in chain/plate.

At the moment, our defensive skills are being held back to a mitigation standard, while we are also stuck with avoidance oriented armor. Our Dodge/Block needs to be boosted to change this or we deserve access to (along with a higher occurance of) more natural armor types, like scales and chitin, that mitigate at levels equivalent to chain and plate. No way should we be stuck with the disadvantages of both combat styles with none of the benefits.

Offline Sharrien

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Re: Test notes 4/7
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2010, 06:03:03 PM »
The devs might be reluctant to increase max skill in dodge because of the 8% dodge aug from LDoN that is so widely available.  They don't really like % mods because they don't scale like the devs want them to, inflating numbers higher than intended.  This is part of the reason why we haven't seen anything since Ashengate with a % mod for Block and few if any items with % Specialization mods for casters.

What we might want to explore is raising the cap for worn Avoidance.  If we use the argument that our class needs help and is far more avoidance based than mitigation, then monks would probably have to be raised as well.  Not sure how much a 20 point bump in the cap would help, even if they agreed to try out the concept defensive parses are a notoriously time consuming pain in the butt.
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Offline Grbage

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Re: Test notes 4/7
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2010, 06:42:04 PM »
The devs might be reluctant to increase max skill in dodge because of the 8% dodge aug from LDoN that is so widely available.  They don't really like % mods because they don't scale like the devs want them to, inflating numbers higher than intended.  This is part of the reason why we haven't seen anything since Ashengate with a % mod for Block and few if any items with % Specialization mods for casters.

What we might want to explore is raising the cap for worn Avoidance.  If we use the argument that our class needs help and is far more avoidance based than mitigation, then monks would probably have to be raised as well.  Not sure how much a 20 point bump in the cap would help, even if they agreed to try out the concept defensive parses are a notoriously time consuming pain in the butt.

Monks would also ask for a bump in avoidance but it would have to be pointed out that they mitigate one heck of a lot better then we do. Also, they do get avoidance checks from the rear for pulling.
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Offline Zunar

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Re: Test notes 4/7
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2010, 10:58:08 PM »
One thing that sucks for us being avoidance based defensively, is that mobs have strikethrough skills these days.
Blocking and dodging simply doesn't help as much....as you take more hits.
Mitigating the damage is way more valuable now and avoidance not so much as it once was I think.

Personally I'd take more ranks to armor of wisdom.

Offline Catnip_Inny

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Re: Test notes 4/7
« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2010, 05:02:23 PM »
Triple Attack is something to be looked at of course, but you have to remember our Double Attack skill does not work the same as a regular melee class. Bestial Frenzy give a 3% bonus to our chances to double attack per rank. Ferocity VI+ gives another 18%.  Direwolf Totem of Battle/Predator spell line give another 6% or 4% (won't stack with each other). That's upwards of 63% chance to Double Attack before you even look at what our actual (admittedly meager) skill of 75 (max) does.

Yes, we need increases to Double and Triple attack. Double attack should have its own "Burst of Power" type AA, with at minimum enough ranks at any time to keep its cap ahead of Triple Attack by at least 5. As for Triple Attack, I think I would prefer to see an AA line similar to Bestial Frenzy rather than a massive increase to the skill cap itself. It would keep it consistent with the existing way Double Attack increases and is more likely to make it through any sort of veto process. Even if it's only 3 ranks or 5 ranks initially, once it's there its far easier to tack on more ranks than it is to boost skill cap directly.

Where we need our skill caps boosted directly and immediately is DODGE and BLOCK. I looked at the skill caps for melee/hybrids. Every melee/hybrid character class that wears metal armor is AT LEAST as good at dodging as we are. Monks of course have the highest dodge skill. Our defensive abilities are mostly avoidance based and not mitigation based like the chain/plate classes, who place more reliance on heavier armor. Our ability to block with a shield, if we choose to equip one, is inferior to that of pure casters, never mind melee and hybrid classes. So, if we rely on avoidance so much more than many other classes, why are we at the bottom of the heap for actual dodge skill? :?

At the very least, our Dodge cap should be boosted (or be boostable by AAs) by a minimum of 25 points to a base skill cap of 405. This would put us on par with the warrior and rogue, but still behind monk, which puts us on the low end where we should be. Our Block skill could use a boost as well, gaining an additional 20 or 25 points, most likely via AAs. This would still leave us 25 to 30 points behind monk for skill. We should be able to dodge, block and riposte in a 360 degree circle around us, since our weapons tend to be smaller and faster on average and the fact that our lighter armor allows for a greater range of motion compared to someone in chain/plate.

At the moment, our defensive skills are being held back to a mitigation standard, while we are also stuck with avoidance oriented armor. Our Dodge/Block needs to be boosted to change this or we deserve access to (along with a higher occurance of) more natural armor types, like scales and chitin, that mitigate at levels equivalent to chain and plate. No way should we be stuck with the disadvantages of both combat styles with none of the benefits.

Very good points, not go make it happen :)

Offline Umlat

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Re: Test notes 4/7
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2010, 05:09:20 PM »
A dodge cap increase for us shouldn't cause problems even with the 8% aug. My point is that we ARE an avoidance based class and that despite that, we are tied for LAST among melee and hybrid classes for the primary avoidance skill - dodge. AC isn't a panacaea. I'm not saying more wouldn't be good, but the dodge cap increase is not an extra. It's a FIX IMO, since it's ludricrous that we stumble around in leather armor as bad as anybody in 60 lbs. + of chain or plate. If you look at other RPG systems, that fact is reflected in the rules. Even if the extra dodge only lets us avoid 1 or 2 more hits in a fight, with hits coming in for 6k and 8k (in quads or worse), a single hit can mean living or dying because of a damage spike.

We can't simply let errors and oversights slide. Doing that is one of the reasons we're at the point we're at.