New AAs on Test!!!

[Camikazi]

I think we should stop trying to look at FD as a de-aggro tool.  How is FD (when it succeeds) much different from just backing out of melee range?  We're either laying on our backs not doing dps or we're out of range not doing any there either, but at least from out of melee range we can still cast Yowl, toss a heal, renew Dragonscale or whatever...anything besides just sitting there like a used rubber on the floor.  IF we want Possum to be primarily a de-aggro tool, it has to have some component to remove aggro besides just laying on the ground.  I am not at all in favor of a deaggro tool that makes us stop doing any dps for it to work.  Treating this as our big aggro-reducing tool will mean that we won't get anything better.

In my opinion Possum should be an escape and pulling ability.  If we're stuck with it, we should ask for AAs to improve it's effectiveness.  We should get access to all, or at least most of them that are now available to other classes all at once just like when we got the Gift of Mana series.

I really didn't want FD at all, would rather leave that for the monks, but since it's a done deal, I want to make sure that it is not considered our shiny new de-aggro tool for use during combat.  Pass to close to see-invis and need to escape or FD during a gorup wipe, yes.  Flop over and over during a fight and lose dps because the tank can't keep aggro?  No way, I can just click off haste and mem one less nuke and get the same aggro reduction.

FD, like Rogue Evade, will drop you on the aggro list a lot faster and much lower then backing out will, that is why you will see Monks hitting FD and instantly getting up and never show up on HoTT, FD and backing out are not the same at all. But that dropping of aggro only works if it doesn't fail :P

[Grbage]

To give a more useful response, consider this...

In the beginning, and for a long, long time afterwards, mage pets were expendable. "Chaining" pets was common. They didn't even zone with you. Same really with necro pets. A necro would FD without any thought for his expendable minion. Which fitted the class very well.

Along came Beastlords, and we were different. Our pets were our constant companions. They zoned with us, they fought alongside us, and we had the means to keep them alive very well. They were great tanks to boot.

Now the tables are totally reversed, which indicates to me a complete lack of direction or understanding of the class in general.

Now mages have pets which they can keep alive indefinitely with this new 100% fade for both pet and mage.

Meanwhile, our "constant companions" now need re-summoning every time the group gets an add and the tank is a bit slow at getting aggro. Ooops, dead warder.

And then we get given an ability which guarantees our warder dies if we get lucky and manage to save ourselves.

*What happened* to the class descriptions?

Please reconsider this. Allow me to save my warder, not sacrifice him.

Actually the class has changed quite a bit from inception and our pets also did not originally zone with us just like other pet classes. Matter of fact we used to summon a very low level, weak pet and the buffs leveled the warder to where it was suppose to be. This caused me quite a few deaths back in the day, invis was unreliable but I kept not wanting to take the time to get up and buff a new pet when crossing multiple zones. Mobs I could handle with the pet would tear me a new one withotu.

Back to playing possum. Ok, we have definitive word that at this time they will not increase the fail rate. I'm going to guess new FD aa's next expansion which really isn't all that far away. Soo, we need to concentrate right now on making one of our other deagro tools more useable. The question is, do we concentrate on the new one or try and get them to scrap it and make our current ones better suited for the job?

[Sharrien]

Stuff....

FD, like Rogue Evade, will drop you on the aggro list a lot faster and much lower then backing out will, that is why you will see Monks hitting FD and instantly getting up and never show up on HoTT, FD and backing out are not the same at all. But that dropping of aggro only works if it doesn't fail :P

My understanding of FD seems flawed.  I thought when you stand up, you are right back where you started aggro-wise.  Does FD in fact wipe your aggro even after you stand up?

I don't see our monks flopping much during raids, I do see them a lot on HoTT when things start heading for the crapper.

[Camikazi]

Stuff....

FD, like Rogue Evade, will drop you on the aggro list a lot faster and much lower then backing out will, that is why you will see Monks hitting FD and instantly getting up and never show up on HoTT, FD and backing out are not the same at all. But that dropping of aggro only works if it doesn't fail :P

My understanding of FD seems flawed.  I thought when you stand up, you are right back where you started aggro-wise.  Does FD in fact wipe your aggro even after you stand up?

I don't see our monks flopping much during raids, I do see them a lot on HoTT when things start heading for the crapper.

Ask any good necro if FD drops you on the aggro list or not :)

[bradam]

Nope. You're not getting a 100% FD right now.
Elidroth Renato



Like he said in beta he wants to give lines that can be improved on down the road. FD is big for us to get and making it 100% probly could not get approved and would cause a lot of crap from other classes. yet slipping it in as a weaker version and getting it set then adding to and improving it down the road, i bet was what he was thinking. 

So whats the aa's mages will get to improve thiers I wonder.. 

[k9wazere]

It's been increased to 80% chance now.

[Blarp]

Actually.. the short answer is I gave you some useful stuff, a little fluff (admittedly the Safe Fall AA was quick and easy), and I decided to save more of your requests for later development. Keep in mind, at the time we weren't even allowed to admit there was a new expansion in the works.

Also, there are some things in that list that shouldn't be AA's at all. In the past there has been far too much blurring of the lines between spells and AA's and I'm determined to do that as little as possible.

FWIW.. I've upped the success chance on Playing Possum to 80% as well as removed the cast time on Chameleon Strike.

Message edited by Elidroth on 04/09/2010 11:16:14.

[Sikkem]

FWIW.. I've upped the success chance on Playing Possum to 80% as well as removed the cast time on Chameleon Strike.

Message edited by Elidroth on 04/09/2010 11:16:14.

Thats pretty acceptable to me. Now depending on how many mobs see through a succesful fd that could be very decent.

[Dragonfangs]

FWIW.. I've upped the success chance on Playing Possum to 80% as well as removed the cast time on Chameleon Strike.

Message edited by Elidroth on 04/09/2010 11:16:14.

Thats pretty acceptable to me. Now depending on how many mobs see through a succesful fd that could be very decent.

You don't need to have a mob "forget about you" for the aggro wipe. All that message means is that your all the way off of it. Its handy to be share, but as a deaggro tool weither its all wiped to that point, or if you wipe 90% aggro to the point you cast it, its all the same for dps. Pulling is another story, that does depend on the "forget about you" message. I'd much rather keep it simple for deaggro means then get it turned into a pulling tool.

It just seems odd to have 4 deaggro skills, sure you can tie them all into one hotkey, but it seems like they are eating up aa's that could be more worthwhile if they did it correctly to start with. But thats just what I am thinking on the matter

[Sikkem]

FWIW.. I've upped the success chance on Playing Possum to 80% as well as removed the cast time on Chameleon Strike.

Message edited by Elidroth on 04/09/2010 11:16:14.

Thats pretty acceptable to me. Now depending on how many mobs see through a succesful fd that could be very decent.

You don't need to have a mob "forget about you" for the aggro wipe. All that message means is that your all the way off of it.

That wasn't what I was talking about. If a mob sees through a successful cast as possum you might as well have gotten the fallen to the ground message.

It could be a very badly worded description but mobs used to see through successful casts of necro's Feign Death at higher levels. Which is why they lobbied so hard for Death Peace, Feign Death pretty much became useless.

[Nusa]

From this thread: http://forums.station.sony.com/eq/posts/list.m?&topic_id=162683

Elidroth wrote:

bumkus wrote:

          Can you also change the bst FD to drop aggro on bst warders, so we don't lose pet if we also use it for pulls?

     Nope. BST FD is designed (on purpose) to be an escape plan, not a pulling tool.

And I think the entirely of Eldroth's post is worth mentioning here:

Actually.. the short answer is I gave you some useful stuff, a little fluff (admittedly the Safe Fall AA was quick and easy), and I decided to save more of your requests for later development. Keep in mind, at the time we weren't even allowed to admit there was a new expansion in the works.

Also, there are some things in that list that shouldn't be AA's at all. In the past there has been far too much blurring of the lines between spells and AA's and I'm determined to do that as little as possible.

FWIW.. I've upped the success chance on Playing Possum to 80% as well as removed the cast time on Chameleon Strike.

Message edited by Elidroth on 04/09/2010 11:16:14.

Necro's wanted a better one for pulling, plain and simple...but that's not the stated intent for us. We should be happy for the moment and revisit it after we've learned how to use it creatively.

[Sikkem]

Necro's wanted a better one for pulling, plain and simple...but that's not the stated intent for us. We should be happy for the moment and revisit it after we've learned how to use it creatively.

Again that is not totally correct Necros wanted Death Peace because SK's had it and Feign Death had reached the state where it was seen through about 80% of the time by trash mobs so you can imagine what raid mobs where like. It was wanted for pulling and as an escape tool and a way to drop aggro.

You basically hit level 55 from memory and the vast majority of mobs failed to believe you were dead even on a successful cast.

We shall see how this same mechanism impacts on our fd but I for one am happy for the changes as it makes it a much more reliable escape plan.

As for Playing Possum affecting the pet on pulls, whilst I have very little interest in this I am pretty certain Pet Hold and Focus would do the job just as well.

Love the changes to CS also.  :mrgreen:

[Lathon]

Actually.. the short answer is I gave you some useful stuff, a little fluff (admittedly the Safe Fall AA was quick and easy), and I decided to save more of your requests for later development. Keep in mind, at the time we weren't even allowed to admit there was a new expansion in the works.

Also, there are some things in that list that shouldn't be AA's at all. In the past there has been far too much blurring of the lines between spells and AA's and I'm determined to do that as little as possible.

FWIW.. I've upped the success chance on Playing Possum to 80% as well as removed the cast time on Chameleon Strike.

Message edited by Elidroth on 04/09/2010 11:16:14.

The fact that He has changed the success rate, drop the cast timer on CS and admits to wanting our other ideas for the next expansion is a step in the right direction for our class as a whole. The thing we have been wanting is a good way to decrease aggro without 10 hotkeys used up with failed results. basically what i can see doing is popping possum, /stand and if it doesn't work i can hit CS and asp ( or smash or raven.. i preffer asp) until i get a refresh and go from there.. will take some tweaking but it's all doable, and better than where we started.

[nedoirah]

I'm on the Test server right now playing with playing possum. I've made notes of everything so far.
Playing Possum: End cost 300 end
Success/fail rate affected by movement. I tried it while walking and got a failure message about moving and no longer feigning.

All my tests thus far are at the zone in in FoS standing still not in combat w/ a scaled wolf con immediately after clicking the ability.

Out of 25 fast checks:
11 were failures
14 succuesses
(edit)
A second set of 25 clicks
10 were failures
15 successes
I'm going to continue testing this aa and the success/fail rate. I'll do combat testing later to see if the success rating changes.

[nedoirah]

I looked around and didn't find the alt activate # for playing possum. I checked it on Test and it's 11073.

I've done a bunch more clicks on playing possum.

out of 100 clicks
41 failures
59 successes

This includes the numbers from my previous post.