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Author Topic: Spells for House of Thule  (Read 26922 times)

Offline Hzath

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Spells for House of Thule
« on: May 06, 2010, 03:35:43 pm »
Let's start working on round 2 of discussions for what we want to see in the next expansion spell wise.  The current spell/AA thread had a lot of good new spell ideas thrown out there, so let's see where everyone stands and if we can improve and refine some of them.

I went through the other thread and compiled all the new spell ideas from it that aren't fero related (more later).  If it looked more like an AA I didn't bring it, I also didn't bring any comments made thus far.


What do you think about these ideas so far?
Like an idea? 
Hate an idea? 
Thoughts for improvement/modifications?

Also, it's assumed we want upgrades to all our current spells, what specific modifications/revamps of current spell lines would you like to see that aren't the typical +x%

Fero - honestly, this spell needs its own thread.  Seriously.  It always derails discussions, but until we get a dev that comes to us and says they want to work with us on improving the spell I think we're wasting our time cluttering up more useful discussions.  So let's not drop any F bombs in this thread (couldn't resist).

If you've had a major epiphany for an amazing spell we all have to know about toss it in the mix too.

Quote
i DO NOT want to see 5 pet heals!!!! THEY ARE WORTHLESS Fluff

Friendly Pet needs to be Fixed back to heal's Targets target!!!

Better healing. Possibly an emergency heal, for ourselves not for our warders, which heals more than 2k but can't be chain cast.

Buffs fixed, somehow. I used to like being asked for IoS all those years ago in PoP. These days you can not cast buffs at all, and 8 times out of 10 nobody will notice. Probably because our buffs are of little significance these days. Our stat buffs are dead, simple as that, so maybe we can get something new?

Spell: Feral Bound, When casted this healing spell grants the caster and there warder a powerful healing bound, caster 3,500 and warder 5,000 hit points.

 Cas time 2.4 sec
 Mana 1,800


*An aura. I'd like to see one that could benefit melee or casters without overlapping other classes' abilities. Like +%melee crit rate, + %nuke/dot crit damage.
*Poison resist check 40% slow. Rare usage, but unique ability.
*New focus add more than just HP - think half power unity.

2. Fluffy, Sic Balls!!  Proc stun that works on higher level mobs, nearly any mob that isnít specifically stun immune.  Tradeoff would be long recast and hit limits, maybe stacking conflict with Hobble/Fellgrip.

3.  Spiritual Verve.  The atk component of this buff is small and doesnít seem to have a significant effect these days.  Future SV should give bonus Heroic STR or DEX.

A dual cast slow/cripple would be a good way to go. As to implementing it we need to ask :
1) Dual Attack % decrease in the cripple part - similar to current enchanter cripples. This is one of the single most needed additions to our repertoire. Even at the expense of 10% to 15% of the actual slow percentage if the dual attack penalty is good enough.
2) Disease based resist - Having focus of animus makes it a no brainer on switching to a disease based slow.
3) Cast time - All of our combat spells should be aiming for faster casts

Another spell to ask for would be a self & pet listlessness type buff for slows/heals.

The % damage bonus from Growl line spells needs to scale upward now so that it provides the combat increase keeps pace with other beastlord spells. Same thing with Feralgia.

Pack Strength - A spell that boosts the combat abilities of a beastlord (and his companions?) based on the size of his "pack" (group size + pets of all kinds

Cliknar Carapace - A reduce all skill damage amount buff for self and pet, similar to part of the CoA chest clicky.


Might of the Elders - An upgraded version of Frenzy(lvl 47) that adds AC, heroic Str, Dex and Agi instead of std stats, that might or might not affect our warder as well.

Some sort of "set-up" or "assist" attack/proc. Much as a pack of hunters will work together, launching feints and wounding attacks to leave their prey vulnerable to a killing strike, the beastlord's warder would attack a foe in this fashion, with a proc of this kind giving other attackers a possible opening to strike an extremely damaging or even fatal blow. The effect would probably have a min damage modifier, critical chance modifier and maximum damage modifier for 1 to 2 ticks and/or the chance to proc a telling blow effect (DD?/% total hp dmg? -- something that noticeably HURTS).

a trigger that fires Sha's Legacy+Lvl 87 disease dot+Lvl 86 poison dot. Ideally it would be more mana efficient than casting all 3 at once, with the added advantage of applying all the spells faster.

What about an upgraded version of Empathic Fury, that lasts 45 seconds...AND boost all pets too...including Yowl pets summoned during that disc is active.

Another maybe easy fix would be to add a twincast buff onto Empathic fury.

Combine our poison and disease dots into one spell like Frozen Venom is.
maybe call it Festering Venom and make dots last 30 seconds and bump up the damage on them imo.

somekind of a root's since we are hybrid shaman but not a proc from the pet a spell we can cast even if its short duration

Like an Aura of the Bear Hug - Allows you to hold a mob in place as long as it stays very close to you
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Offline kharthai

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2010, 03:50:00 pm »
I'd like to see Yowl (or whatever the new werewolf spell is called) boosted in power a bit, and for us to get the aforementioned cast time reduction (to 0.5).

I'd like an improvement in burst dps.  Whether this is from an improved version of Empathic Fury, or a new disc that stacks with something we currently have, or a high mana-cost nuke, or short term high powered high mana cost swarm pet, I don't really care (swarm pet probably last on my list, though).

Not particularly crazy about any heal ideas, mostly because I have little faith they'll be done right and effective.

The slow/dot/dot combination spell sounds interesting.

Offline Hzath

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2010, 04:18:21 pm »
I'll start with the one thing I think the whole community actually agrees on.  NO LONG CAST TIMES ON COMBAT SPELLS.  If it isn't a buff and takes longer than 1.5 seconds to cast it will almost certainly not get used unless it's something truly amazing.  

Specific examples are:

Yowl at the moon (1.5s) - It's always been a detriment to our melee dps to cast, but it's finally getting to the point where we're considering or have stopped casting in certain situations.

Friendly Pet (3s) - Aside from its other issues, if a spell proc has charges like this I'll almost certainly not bother refreshing it mid-fight with such a long cast time.

Minax's Mending (5s) - It's not a very good spell in general, but with the outrageous cast time it's definitely one of our worst.

(I'm not including Haergen's because the combined effect of both spells in 1.5s is already a significant improvement over two individual spells)


Current Spell Feedback:

Focus of ____ - This spell needs overcap stats.  I think we should shoot for the level 80 shaman focus amount of overcaps.  It wouldn't infringe on any current content shaman, but would be a massive improvement over pure hp.

Targetted Player Heal - Heals need a big boost across the board.  Hybrids specifically need an extra bump.

SV line - It's third best.  There's no reason for any class choose it over pred or brells.  It needs something added, what I couldn't tell you.

Minax's Mending - Is this spell a HoT or a promised?  It fails as both.  How am I supposed to know if my pet is going to need a big heal in 1-2minutes?  That's way too long to delay the boom heal.  The other side of the coin is that the HoT is too small, 800hp/tick won't prolong life in any sort of current content.  There's two possible ways to go here to make it useful.
1: Decrease the HoT duration down to 3ticks so the big heal comes sooner.  Allow it to stack with our current Promised line so we have the option to stagger them if needed.
2: Increase the HoT substantially and remove the boom heal at the end.  For all our pet heals, a heal over time spell is what we lack somehow.  A 30second base HoT with heal values of around 3000 would be appropriate I think.

DoTs (both types) - Instacast was a good start.  They still lack the firepower to be a major part of our arsenal.  Adding a secondary debuff or more damage would make them more than spells to cast when yowl/nukes are greyed out.

Poison DD line - I wouldn't mind seeing the poison line recasts split into two groups like the cold nukes.  I know they're more powerful, but we aren't terrifying anyone with our dps currently.  The other issue is casting the lower level cold spell leaves me with no other dps spells to cast when I get the older version GoM proc, so I have to watch it go to waste.

Friendly Pet - ...

____ Jaws line - I would like the proc rate modifier upped to 400.  It's our best resist mod slow and has to be used in some situations and I don't like waiting on procs I can't control.  If I'm going to refresh the spell constantly, I'd like assurance the slow is going to be on the mob before it's almost dead.

____ Aegis line - RK3: Mitigate Spell Damage by 80%, 14560 total.  That's one AE, even for group encounters.


I'm turning into Umlat.  I'll post my responses to the newer ideas later.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 07:44:41 pm by Hzath »
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Offline wildwaters

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2010, 10:14:10 pm »
And less activated shit

Offline Karve

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2010, 08:17:23 am »

Professional Mad Bastard.

Offline Khauruk

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2010, 01:18:03 pm »
No more activated shit

I fixed that for you.  We've gone out of hand.

Somebody pls explain to the developers that bst are more iritating to play well than bards now (w/o the cool shit they can do even).
TURNCOAT!!!!!

Offline Zunar

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2010, 02:07:58 pm »
I think one cool thing could be to give our pet proc buffs (Spirit of Vaxtn etc) some more attention.
Instead of the same old, damage+stun on even con mobs...why not flavor them more.
Maybe add one proc for each resist, making us able to choose one for the occasion.

Spirit of Poison - Adds a DoT on the mob, that grows more powerful as time goes like necro Splurt spell. For longer fights.
Spirit of Disease - Disease DoT + lowers AC.
Spirit of Fire - Fire nukes, more damage. Burns faster - could even have a number of counters on it.
Spirit of Ice - Cold nukes + lowers Attack
Spirit of Magic - magic Nuke + stun
Spirit of Corruption - defensive proc. Fires if pet or owner is hit. stun, 1 tick mez or something.

If anyone has better ideas feel free...This is what I could come up with atm

Offline Grbage

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2010, 04:10:06 pm »
Essentially we used to have choices in pet procs but except for the rare occasion everyone just used the newest proc because it was better. Personally I like this model because it beats having all our spell development tied into giving us a choice between 6 different procs rather then actual class spell development. You have to remember they usually give all the classes X spells per expansion and that's it.
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Offline Umlat

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2010, 05:26:54 pm »
Essentially we used to have choices in pet procs but except for the rare occasion everyone just used the newest proc because it was better. Personally I like this model because it beats having all our spell development tied into giving us a choice between 6 different procs rather then actual class spell development. You have to remember they usually give all the classes X spells per expansion and that's it.

Actual class spell development? What's that? Beastlords are sitting at over 5 spells below the average for hybrid classes for levels 81 to 85. Of the spells we do get, 4 are pet heals and growl is at this point redundant (and still not boosting pet damage properly).

Friends are the only reason I still play EQ. The development team has shown itself to be blantantly biased and unable to retain objectivity, refrain from favoritism or maintain a sense of professionalism. The community leadership program seems to be a bastion of sycophancy carefully recruited to provide a "rubber stamp" legitimacy to support the devs' prejudices and to pander to their viewpoint. Devs have stated they pretty much ignore any feedback.

The only way this adolescent nonsense will end is if some of these people get kicked to the curb and find themselves looking for work. Even then, the damage they've done to EQ is endemic and impossible to fix without starting from scratch. Sadly, the lack of accountability here will only lead to the repetition of the same problems in whatever projects we have the misfortune of seeing them move on to.



Offline Grbage

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 05:50:41 pm »
Essentially we used to have choices in pet procs but except for the rare occasion everyone just used the newest proc because it was better. Personally I like this model because it beats having all our spell development tied into giving us a choice between 6 different procs rather then actual class spell development. You have to remember they usually give all the classes X spells per expansion and that's it.

Actual class spell development? What's that? Beastlords are sitting at over 5 spells below the average for hybrid classes for levels 81 to 85. Of the spells we do get, 4 are pet heals and growl is at this point redundant (and still not boosting pet damage properly).

Friends are the only reason I still play EQ. The development team has shown itself to be blantantly biased and unable to retain objectivity, refrain from favoritism or maintain a sense of professionalism. The community leadership program seems to be a bastion of sycophancy carefully recruited to provide a "rubber stamp" legitimacy to support the devs' prejudices and to pander to their viewpoint. Devs have stated they pretty much ignore any feedback.

The only way this adolescent nonsense will end is if some of these people get kicked to the curb and find themselves looking for work. Even then, the damage they've done to EQ is endemic and impossible to fix without starting from scratch. Sadly, the lack of accountability here will only lead to the repetition of the same problems in whatever projects we have the misfortune of seeing them move on to.




Where I work they call that culture. What I've noticed is culture is damn hard to change if it's not to your liking even by the big shot in charge. Lots of inertia to overcome.
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Offline bradam

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 06:32:49 pm »

First and foremost for me is a solid warder, both good def/off.   On par with mage pets.  Take the average of the earth/air pet maybe and give us that. The whole "mages get the best pets" thing has to end, that was only started by mages in the first place   :-P


I'm more inclined to ask for better revamps of older spells then more new ones.  Though a couple new ones would be nice.    I like the revamped slow with dot(s) added to it.. Have to make sure the dots still land even if sham/chanter slow is already on the mob though. 

Maybe a combo spell for minix and promised?   Kinda a good heal over time spell but still with a boom heal at the end? 

Complete revamp of our craptastic player heal spell to actually be useful again, and add a cure component to it perhaps?

Some kind of cripple/debuff would be nice.  I used to use incapasitate (sp?) every mob after i slowed it back in the day. 

Maybe a pet rune that procs twincast on us when it fades? 

Yowl upgrade with a instant cast, alot higher damage pets, maybe more mana/longer recast?


Friendly pet damn near needs it's own thread next to fero I think   :-D


And to dream a little..  castable Snare!

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 06:58:32 pm »
Ragging on the devs has no upside, you realize. It's self-destructive.

Offline bradam

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #12 on: May 07, 2010, 11:09:24 pm »
Add a pet heal recourse to one of our nuke lines would be nice.  Like the one the mages got with UF


Offline Mazame

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2010, 06:39:25 am »
Current sell Lines I would like to keep and see improved in the next  level increase are the following.  

Haergen's Feralgia: this was a nice spell that helps to not lose dps and still add growl on to us. I would request that the upgrade have a shorter cast time and an increase to damage.
 
Yowl at the Moon: would Like to keep this line as it more mana effective then HF line. Again on the upgrade would request a shorter cast time and a damage increase. would also like to see the % on spawning 4 to be greater

 Spellbreaker's Aegis: This spell line is hard to use because we donít know what is going to be hitting or pet most of the time. I would like to see this line combines with the melee version so that one buff will protect from both spells and melee

Savage Ferocity: This line is more of a pain to use then it worth. Upgrade to a group version and add a + crit mod to it. The resist on it donít do anything they could be removed after all most people are capped resist anyways.  Another option would be to turn the resist mod into an over cap resist mob so that the effect would be worth using.

Frozen Venom: love this new line please keep it around and keep it upgrading each level increase

Spiritual Edification: This line is nice but is getting out dated each passing year. With bigger HP / mana pools and harder hitting mob and higher costing spells re gen is not what it used to be. Also with OOC re gen the need for re gen is not as important as it used to be. To UPGRADE this line I would as to make the mana / hp re gen some thing that will be worth having and using make the increase to match the gain in hp and mana pools please.

Frigid Lance: Ice nukes have been our main focus for many year I would like to see the damage on these go up a lot more then they have been.

Spirit of Vaxztn: The stun effect on this line I would like to see improved a bit. Also if you could make a note in the spell it self on what type of damage it doing would be nice as it changes every level.

Bite of the Vitrik: Love this line would like to see it keep coming back with a bit more damage each time.

Unrivaled Rapidity: would like this spell split into 2. a group haste that we can cast that is better then people get from potions. 2nd would be the pet haste for our pet. The recourse effect is a nice idea but the group haste just doesnít last long enough and having to re load the spell every 18 min is just not worth it.

 Spirit of Kuris: Our WARDER need a lot of help. He is our =, or least the lore makes it sound that way. To bad our pet die way to easy and his dps  need a boost please make our warder much better then they are currently.

Tsetsian Endemic: Dots are nice but unlike other classes getting our to land are a pain on upgrade please add a resist mob so they will land with out having to cast them 4-7 times before they do.

Spiritual Verve: If people what attack that ask a Ranger. If they want HP they ask a Paly. Ya it nice to a little of both but most the time it not used. UPGRADE / REVAMP .. I would say change this to one of the following.

A)    + mana, + spell damage.
 That way melee can go after the ranger , tanks can get brells and caster can take bst  version .

B)     + end, + heal effect
 This would be an option more for healers then caster dps.

Both option I would like as it means on raids I will have meaning and those that want can pick between the 3 options  Paly / Bst / Ranger  the buff that works for them the best.

Cadmael's Mending: we need a better heal 2k heal even with aa  is often only doing around 4k and if lucky 8k. mobs these days often hit in one round what we heal for. I not asking to be as good as pure healer classes but would like to see our heals able to save some one when we see they need it rather then just slowing the death.

Focus of Yemall / Infusion of Spirit:  FoY is currently just HP and we not seen an improvement on our IoS line sense 61. with gear the way it is we could use an over cap IoS  version  or combine these 2 and make the stats over cap. They donít need to be as good as the sham buff  but we are part sham and so I feel we are due to have our buff spells follow their. Often this line is only used when a sham is not around any ways so the fact that a sham will over ride them I donít see the problem in giving us the over cap stats at a level behind the sham.  If that is not do able then consider letting our FoY being moved so it will stack with sham unity after all it just hp and rather then having a buff that rarely gets use would be nice to have some thing we can add.

Ikaav Blood: same with our other dot line would like to have this land more often with out having to recast it 3-4 time to get it to land.

Salve of Reshan if any bst loads a heal this is the heal we load and so would be nice to see this one stay around and be improved a bit.


Old spell lines that have been forgotten that I would like to be returned and updated:

Annul Magic would like to see an improvement on this line that wont strip our slow / dots off but let us debuff the mobs ( last upgrade for us was level 61)

Incapacitate: would Love to get an upgrade to this line last time we saw this line was level 56 yet it still a line I would love to use and is due for an up grade.

Shifting Shield: this is another line that has been forgotten I would not mind seeing return.

Frenzy: this was a short lasting buff that we could use and was nice to have would not mind seeing an update for it last one we got was level 47.
 

Spells I would like to be removed and their lines ended.

Fellgrip Jaws:  Please remove this line from our spell list it not worth using and not worth the spell slot to keep it loaded.

Growl of the Jaguar: With Haergenís Feralgia  new line this line is no longer need and can be laid to rest. Please keep it effects and improvements going to HF line instead.

Friendly Pet: UMMM please remove asap this line is not worth keeping around.

Promised Rejuvenation: I for one think this is nice for clerics but as a pet heal my pet doesnít last long enough for me to wait for this heal to trigger. You can remove this line.

Minax's Mending: We have limited spell slots in the middle of combat we have to pick what we feel will make give us the best chance at taking out our foe. We donít need 4 types of pet heals we donít load them and would rather not take the spell slots to load them. So I would say a 700 hp hot when mobs hit for 4k+ just is not worth having loaded. Please remove this line.
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 06:41:51 am by Mazame »

Offline Hzath

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Re: Spells for House of Thule
« Reply #14 on: May 08, 2010, 10:29:34 am »
Promised Rejuvenation: I for one think this is nice for clerics but as a pet heal my pet doesn’t last long enough for me to wait for this heal to trigger. You can remove this line.

Very strange.  Dragonscale Guard and Promised line are the only 2 pet heal spells I use outside of extreme circumstances.
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