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Author Topic: Beastlord Burst DPS  (Read 34934 times)

Offline Grbage

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2010, 11:05:26 PM »
Welcome to the boards Elidroth!

I have to agree with Bumkus, we might currently be where you want us dps wise for groups and I am too if we had our old utility back. Our utility is basically slow and nothing else in current content. Update our buffs/debuffs/heal and I'll be a happy beast. Without those updated all we have is DPS and in that case it needs a significant boost.
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Offline Karve

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2010, 08:41:17 AM »
Welcome Elidroth, well met!

I too will agree here, with DPS for group setting I think I'm about right (I'm on the low end of AA's compared to these hardcore raider types, but thats cos I slack alot :))
Raiding yes, burst DPS needs a nudge upwards, but group wise, lacking utility is a big issue. Also one thing we've lost which was a real bonus in group content was being able to let the pet reliably offtank adds - that would be a very positive thing to have back. It doesn't matter that fluffy can't kill the things, just as long as he can keep em busy without needing a heal every 2 seconds.

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Offline Khauruk

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #32 on: May 13, 2010, 09:16:04 AM »
Keep in mind I'm limited to working within the AA system. Spells/Discs need to go through Aristo for adjustments.

With these restrictions, and looking to keep group dps controlled, a version of wizards 1st spire or Frenzied Devastationn sounds like an option I'd strongly support.  The relative dps tuning is already covered by spell ranks and foci.  It builds upon the stronger casting role we've been given with Underfoot.  It's new, and we finally have enough agro control abilities to make use of it.  90 second to 2 minute duration.

Frenzied Devastation (rank 3) http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5247&source=Live
Slot    Description
1:    Decrease Spell Mana Cost by 0%
2:    Limit: Instant spells only
3:    Limit: Spell Type (Detrimental only)
4:    Limit: Effect (Hitpoints allowed)
5:    Limit: Combat Skills Not Allowed
6:    Spell Crit Chance (40)
Max Hits:     9

I would ask that you are open to removing the instant duration restriction and max hits restriction (due to our much lower spell base damage and relative lack of crit size enhancers) and even if necessary lower the crit chance to allow for that to happen.  Our 30 second ice nukes are becoming rapidly superseded by our DoTs and some aren't memming them anymore.
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Offline wildwaters

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #33 on: May 13, 2010, 09:37:18 AM »
You know the idea of bumping up bestial alignment has merit;

Sk's recently got visage of death:

   2: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 180%
   3: Illusion: Zombie

Bestial Alignment:

   1: Illusion: Tiger
   3: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 100%
   4: Increase Chance to Resist Spell by 20%



Being an SK main these days I've found the mod on Visage seems pretty well balanced for current content.

I also keep up with my beastlord and have found bestial to have stagnated against current content. It would seem reasonable to up the mod on bestial to bring it into line with the HP on monsters in new content.

Also, most beastlords will agree that third spite is next to useless. It may be a good idea just to rework that.

Shadowknight spire (first spire of the reaver) looks like:

2: Critical DoT (20)
3: Unknown #375 (100/200/0)
4: Spell Crit Chance (20)

Simply reworking third spire for beastlord into something similar would add some additional burst capacity without breaking group content.

A combination of increasing the mod on higher ranks of bestial alignment and changing third spire to effect spell damage would be a reasonable boost to beastlord burst dps without having to make alot of alterations.

Offline wildwaters

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #34 on: May 13, 2010, 09:41:09 AM »
Lol khauruk posted while I was typing that up. That wizard spire looks good too. Necros also got a spire with spell damage mods. It would make sense that at least one beast spire should effect spell damage.

I am not a real fan of the 9 hit limit there.

Also DoT's (by their very nature) do not lend well to burst dps but having an ability that increases nuke and DoT potential would allow a beastlord to determine which spells would be best suited to cast while under such an ability in any given situation.

It also makes sense that our three spires should effect our three forms of damage spell, melee and pet. Melee and pet we sort of have, but spell damage is not included in our spires.
« Last Edit: May 13, 2010, 09:54:03 AM by wildwaters »

Offline Zunar

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #35 on: May 13, 2010, 01:40:25 PM »
I thought up of an idea that sounds interesting, even though it is sort of a stolen mechanic. Also just thinking out loud.

Rogues have backstab damage on their weapons, and I was thinking we could get sort of a "feral" damage mark on the HTH weapons that we get (or Torment, if you're in group content). It wouldn't do anything normally, but if you then hit a discipline (or AA or whatever) it gave you the ability to tap into that damage and you could frequently make a damage check against that damage number for high damage values.

Ideally this would be just a "hit one button and it does the work" thing but who knows. I don't see why rogues have to be the only class centered around a seperate damage table.

Alternatively we could ask for something much like the Monks/Berserkers have, Calanin's Synergy/Overpowering Frenzy. Foray damage, or Feral Swipe damage, that applies a debuff that makes those abilities hit even harder.

I agree it'd be a nice way to improve the higher end dps as it's needed, however I wonder how much more work it'd require to change itemization, instead of just puting some changes to AAs.
Upgrading bestial Alignment and perhaps giving us flurry AAs might go a long way.

Offline Camikazi

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #36 on: May 13, 2010, 02:05:11 PM »
Upgrading bestial Alignment and perhaps giving us flurry AAs might go a long way.
Flurry will not help unless we get more triple attack, our TA rate is low and since flurry can only trigger on a successful triple it will not help.




Offline Mazame

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #37 on: May 14, 2010, 12:06:23 AM »
You know the idea of bumping up bestial alignment has merit;

Sk's recently got visage of death:

   2: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 180%
   3: Illusion: Zombie

Bestial Alignment:

   1: Illusion: Tiger
   3: Increase All Skills Damage Modifier by 100%
   4: Increase Chance to Resist Spell by 20%



Being an SK main these days I've found the mod on Visage seems pretty well balanced for current content.

I also keep up with my beastlord and have found bestial to have stagnated against current content. It would seem reasonable to up the mod on bestial to bring it into line with the HP on monsters in new content.

Also, most beastlords will agree that third spite is next to useless. It may be a good idea just to rework that.

Shadowknight spire (first spire of the reaver) looks like:

2: Critical DoT (20)
3: Unknown #375 (100/200/0)
4: Spell Crit Chance (20)

Simply reworking third spire for beastlord into something similar would add some additional burst capacity without breaking group content.

A combination of increasing the mod on higher ranks of bestial alignment and changing third spire to effect spell damage would be a reasonable boost to beastlord burst dps without having to make alot of alterations.

Wild for once I kind of agree with you the problem I have is one I been saying for a while. SK got a big jump with UF. and I not saying Nerf SK. but the fact that your post is asking to bring bst up to par with Sk's is just wrong. we are DPS or so they say the fact that anything should have to be brought up to SK level ( a tank ) is just wrong. if anything they should be higher then an SK plan and simple.

Offline wildwaters

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #38 on: May 14, 2010, 02:07:25 AM »
Clutter
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 04:18:11 PM by wildwaters »

Offline wildwaters

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #39 on: May 14, 2010, 02:13:20 AM »
The point was that we could easily be bumped up with in those mod ranges. The point of linking sk stuff was to illustrate that a bump was not out of balance.

You have to factor in that a bump in the mod is not just effected by the bump to the melee mod itself but by double attack, tripple attack, foray and other activated abilities etc. The Mod on visage was designed around the abilities given to shadowknights. Any increases we ask for have to be designed around our own unique abilities.

Personally Id bump bestial to 200 but I have no numbers behind that.

Also, that particular sk ability has a silence attached to it where we DO NOT want that to happen to ourt abilities.


When you say that SKs got large bumps that is a very relative statement. Beasts got minor bumps in melee but LARGE bumps in spells.

Saying that sks can out dps beastlrods is a load of horse hockey.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 04:44:31 PM by wildwaters »

Offline Grbage

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2010, 03:01:35 AM »
My now defunct alliance is rather short of dps classes but its not unusual to see an sk pop up in the top 10. Yeah it is the lack of dps classes that allow them to pop into the top 10 but the fact they can shows what an sk can do.
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Offline wildwaters

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2010, 03:06:28 AM »
My now defunct alliance is rather short of dps classes but its not unusual to see an sk pop up in the top 10. Yeah it is the lack of dps classes that allow them to pop into the top 10 but the fact they can shows what an sk can do.

Top end Sks are capable of 8k top end dps are capable of 10-16k easy I've heard warriors doing over 12k I cant verify that.

« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 03:09:34 AM by wildwaters »

Offline nedoirah

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2010, 04:04:55 AM »
I think we should take a look at the discs we already have to work on them for upgrades instead of giving us more buttons to click.

Bestial frenzy to empathic fury. Nice upgrade but the long recast timer limits its uses. Also the retarget to pet is a pita.

Foray line. Love it. Does it work based on the weapons you have equipped? If it doesn't shouldn't it?

Feral swipe. Nice single hit aa once every 30 secs. Same with foray line. I would like more ranks in it.

3rd spire. What is this supposed to do? Can we get this fixed so it works right?

I think my point is hit up the discs that are melee based that are or should be weapon based for damage so it will scale up with weapons in regards to group or raid.

Offline Mazame

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #43 on: May 14, 2010, 05:17:50 AM »
My now defunct alliance is rather short of dps classes but its not unusual to see an sk pop up in the top 10. Yeah it is the lack of dps classes that allow them to pop into the top 10 but the fact they can shows what an sk can do.

Top end Sks are capable of 8k top end dps are capable of 10-16k easy I've heard warriors doing over 12k I cant verify that.



on a short fight I know sk have broken 20k . I don't know any bst that can get that at this point.

If your talking about a bst hitting 10k+ you talking about a lot of things falling into place and lining up right. the same could be then said for an sk in the same boat.

Toss out your dot, click HT, Click Zombie, have shammy click epic and you will be over 10k. 

Bst have to burn non stop and keep everything grey and if they are lucky they break 10k .  and so ya if things are timed right then bst and sk are very close to the same dps. now over a long grind with the ups and down on avg a bst will be 2k+ over a SK. but when it comes to burn if all things a up a sk and a bst on the same mob both going all out comes down to how long the mob is alive  the long it is the bst will end up on top because we lock in on our dps and can hold it but we lack the burst to get it up high in the 1st 1-4 min.

That is what this topic is about the fact our Burst DPS lacks

Offline wildwaters

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Re: Beastlord Burst DPS
« Reply #44 on: May 14, 2010, 05:53:19 AM »
20k over a LESS THAN 60 SECOND fight. I can hit 20k dps if I run up to a 20k hp mob and harm touch it.

A pally can do 70k dps with 3 25k slays in on a 70k hp mob.

The average sk burn seems to be 4-8k.

We need to focus on fights that last longer than 60 seconds.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2010, 04:22:40 PM by wildwaters »