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Author Topic: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)  (Read 15472 times)

Offline Sharrien

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #15 on: June 25, 2010, 01:39:50 pm »
I like this response also.
Quote
Elidroth: AA and Spells have been done by 2 people as far back as I can remember.

The Beastlord class needs help. We know it, and if you'd search the forums a bit you'd see we've stated as much. I've got a lot planned on the AA side and Aristo is well aware of their needs from a spell standpoint.

Apparently though if we don't reply to every single thread, someone always feels like "The devs are ignoring me" when in fact, a little research shows we're not.

I haven't seen a response to any of the feedback I've sent in the last several months, but if you at Kumbaja's site, there are some interesting items showing up in a search of beast AA.

http://kumbaja.antonius-bayle.org/spell/search_aa_by_class/Bst

So, I think we are getting some attention.  Hopefully during Beta (ideally even before Beta) there will be some meaningful two-way dialogue to flesh out new stuff for the expansion.
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Offline Khauruk

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #16 on: June 25, 2010, 01:44:45 pm »
There's nothing actually new in that list though, Sharrien.  There are things we don't have, but some of those are ranger things (see thread for last patch I made) and some won't come to be.  The things that are beastly in there all have a last-altered date of quite a while ago in their history, and were from development for the last expansion (then discarded), and unlikely for new one.

Couple things I'd like to get my hands on in there though :D
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Offline Tadenea

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #17 on: June 25, 2010, 02:00:42 pm »
Aristo is looking into Friendly Pet, still can not say for sure what Aristo is doing with it exactly, but I will say it is being looked into
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Offline Hzath

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2010, 02:06:42 pm »
Aristo is looking into Friendly Pet, still can not say for sure what Aristo is doing with it exactly, but I will say it is being looked into

Yuck.  I don't even like the spell as a concept.  Pet procs make me a sad panda (random and uncontrollable, unfocusable, unaffected by AAs), short duration pet proc buffs with hit limits that have to be refreshed every 90 seconds are even worse.
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Offline Sharrien

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #19 on: June 25, 2010, 03:51:55 pm »
There's nothing actually new in that list though, Sharrien.  There are things we don't have, but some of those are ranger things (see thread for last patch I made) and some won't come to be.  The things that are beastly in there all have a last-altered date of quite a while ago in their history, and were from development for the last expansion (then discarded), and unlikely for new one.

Couple things I'd like to get my hands on in there though :D

I was looking at Acrimony of Xixyx and the other similar effects and also Frenzied Aura.  I don't know for sure if they are new additions, they might be old efforts that were abandoned and never deleted, but I'm a glass-is-half-full guy, so I choose to believe they are working on some cool stuff for us.  :)
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Offline Sharrien

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #20 on: June 25, 2010, 04:01:38 pm »
Aristo is looking into Friendly Pet, still can not say for sure what Aristo is doing with it exactly, but I will say it is being looked into

Yuck.  I don't even like the spell as a concept.  Pet procs make me a sad panda (random and uncontrollable, unfocusable, unaffected by AAs), short duration pet proc buffs with hit limits that have to be refreshed every 90 seconds are even worse.

I'll agree with you on hit limits.  If FP was something with only a few hits and re-buffing caused us to target pet and has a long cast time, then it won't work.  I don't mind the random and unfocussed nature of these heals because if it was directed and focussed like our PC heal spell then it would be just another sub-standard heal spell.

Friendly Pet could be a good spell that adds to our utility if:
- heals target's target
- either done as a pre-fight buff, long duration, significant hit limits, long re-cast
- or 0.5 sec cast, does not change our target, fewer proc limits, but short re-cast
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Offline Hzath

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #21 on: June 25, 2010, 04:21:35 pm »
Not being affected by gear and AA means it won't scale at all, being completely overpowered in a grouping situation (especially low end) or completely useless in a raiding situation.
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Offline bradam

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #22 on: June 25, 2010, 05:07:13 pm »
Not being affected by gear and AA means it won't scale at all, being completely overpowered in a grouping situation (especially low end) or completely useless in a raiding situation.

Maybe make it a powerful heal but also make it so you need 2 beastlords to make it work?  Kinda like how the rogue tallon/vallon posions work?  That would "kind of" limit it to raid only instances, thus allowing it to be more powerful?

Offline Sharrien

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #23 on: June 25, 2010, 07:30:45 pm »
The total potential healing that Friendly could provide right now is about 18-21k for all 6 procs which would be useful in either situation, but only if we can get it tweaked just a bit so it heals the proper target.  It was never intended to replace healers, even mercs, but could make their job a little easier.  Scaling would come with updated versions that we could get with level increases.

Maybe I se more potential in it because I tank for my duo in T8, but marginally.  A bad round can put me on the ground and a few extra heals from my warder could help a lot.  Plus, my guild routinely has 2-4 beasts on almost every raid.

I would like to see the spell line continue, but only if is fixed first.  If it isn't going to be, don't bother giving us a new one for 86-90.
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Offline Umlat

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #24 on: June 25, 2010, 08:37:25 pm »
- Beastlord - Decreased the cast time and increased the recast time on all ranks of Salve of Reshan. - 1 sec cast time, about a 2 sec recast time  8-)
- Beastlord - Increased the heal amount of all ranks of Salve of Reshan.
- Beastlord - Increased the HP granted by all ranks of Focus of Yemall. - Rk. I gave 1009hp so an extra 93hp
- Beastlord - Increased the duration of the Unrivaled Rapidity haste recourse to match the duration of the base buff. - Sadly the recourse duration is 39mins
- Beastlord - Increased the duration of Spirit of Vaxztn to 60 minutes. - tick
- Beastlord - Adjusted Pact of the Wurine to resolve some stacking issues with the Enchanter 2nd Spire and some Geomantra clickies. - tick

Not sure what can be done about the pet haste recourse. -

Yemall - Would have preferred to just be given Bloodworg.



Honestly, I'd rather see a separate buff with the stat overcaps, rather than a lesser version of the shaman buffs, since it would allow some classes to use their self buffs and stat cap bonuses vs darkpaw. Maybe even get an AGI overcap.

Anybody know if the new group haste durations still increase with rank with the upgrade?

Now, if they'd just fix Growl/Feralgia so that the Increase Damage All Skills modifier % was equal to 15% + the apropriate % based on the appropriate pet haste damage bonus %. (ie. Unrivalled rapidity rk I/II/III is 12/13/14%, so jaguar/feralgia should have a bouns of 27/28/29% for warder and beastlord.) This is based on the fact that the original (lvl 61) growl bonus was 15% and that the first upgrade (lvl 69) bonus was 20%, 15% higher than the 5% damage bonus introduced in the pet haste buff line a level earlier. Acknowledging the increase in the HoT component of Feraliga to double that of Jaguar explicitly instead of leaving it as a stealth increase would be nice as well.

Fixing the issue with wurine and snare dispel, and making taste of blood, 2nd and 3rd spire all useful would be good next steps. So would flurry. Changing 2nd spire to an auto twinproc buff for pet for the duration and changing our effectively useless 3rd spire into an endurance or hp/mana/end regen version of paragon would add some fixed utility in the form of the extra para/endurance regen abilities as a set discrete amount that doesnt scale up with our regular paragon. Taste of blood could be switched to a set of increase damage effects like the recourse of tri'qaras that has a chance to proc on a critical hit.

Friendly Pet/Pet slow procs - I like the idea of Friendly Pet adding a slightly up-powered Hand of Holy vengeance recourse to our regular Proc. It's friendly in that it hits the group including the warder but doesn't have the ToT issues that killed the original FP idea, it doesnt add more procs to the stack of them on the same attacks, cutting down on mutual interference, doesn't need charges and it scales with any pet twinproc abilities we may get. Pet listlessness buff instead of the pet slow procs no question. It gives our pet a defensive proc finally, takes charges out of the equation again, doens't interfere with snare, cuts down on the need to scan through mobs and slow them so we don't lose dps and the heal recourse chance will help with survivability, especially when dealing with silences and such. Both together removes any stacking issues with snare, and adds a consistent if small group heal amount to group and a somewhat decent slow/heal ability to pet albeit a defensive based one.

But this is finally a decent to good start to dealing with stuff. Here's hoping they keep this up for a few patches at least, so we can get some catching up done.

Offline Dilgartownguard

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #25 on: June 25, 2010, 08:45:25 pm »
Oh good, a bunch of useless changes to things that don't matter.

Offline bradam

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #26 on: June 25, 2010, 09:23:50 pm »

Now, if they'd just fix Growl/Feralgia so that the Increase Damage All Skills modifier % was equal to 15% + the apropriate % based on the appropriate pet haste damage bonus %. (ie. Unrivalled rapidity rk I/II/III is 12/13/14%, so jaguar/feralgia should have a bouns of 27/28/29% for warder and beastlord.) This is based on the fact that the original (lvl 61) growl bonus was 15% and that the first upgrade (lvl 69) bonus was 20%, 15% higher than the 5% damage bonus introduced in the pet haste buff line a level earlier. Acknowledging the increase in the HoT component of Feraliga to double that of Jaguar explicitly instead of leaving it as a stealth increase would be nice as well.



Is this stacking issue a bug or intended?   If it's a bug shouldn't we have a community leader forward it to the dev's?   I'd guess this is one of the easily overlooked issues they probably aren't even aware of.

Offline Camikazi

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #27 on: June 25, 2010, 09:36:29 pm »
Fixing the issue with wurine and snare dispel, and making taste of blood, 2nd and 3rd spire all useful would be good next steps. So would flurry. Changing 2nd spire to an auto twinproc buff for pet for the duration and changing our effectively useless 3rd spire into an endurance or hp/mana/end regen version of paragon would add some fixed utility in the form of the extra para/endurance regen abilities as a set discrete amount that doesnt scale up with our regular paragon. Taste of blood could be switched to a set of increase damage effects like the recourse of tri'qaras that has a chance to proc on a critical hit.

3rd spire does need something done to it, but 2nd is the highest DPS of our spires by a long shot.




Offline Hzath

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #28 on: June 25, 2010, 10:03:17 pm »

Now, if they'd just fix Growl/Feralgia so that the Increase Damage All Skills modifier % was equal to 15% + the apropriate % based on the appropriate pet haste damage bonus %. (ie. Unrivalled rapidity rk I/II/III is 12/13/14%, so jaguar/feralgia should have a bouns of 27/28/29% for warder and beastlord.) This is based on the fact that the original (lvl 61) growl bonus was 15% and that the first upgrade (lvl 69) bonus was 20%, 15% higher than the 5% damage bonus introduced in the pet haste buff line a level earlier. Acknowledging the increase in the HoT component of Feraliga to double that of Jaguar explicitly instead of leaving it as a stealth increase would be nice as well.



Is this stacking issue a bug or intended?   If it's a bug shouldn't we have a community leader forward it to the dev's?   I'd guess this is one of the easily overlooked issues they probably aren't even aware of.


It's not a bug it's just a consequence of the fact that damage mods don't stack.  The level 68 pet haste had a 5% damage modifier, the first pet haste to have one.  In DoN we got our growl line with its 20% damage mod.  Now our pet hastes have higher innate damage mods (12/13/14) while the growl line has stayed constant at 20% so the pet has lost some benefits from growl.  Even if the pet growl was raised to 30% damage mod to regain the lost damage it's not much in terms of a real dps increase because their damage is so low to begin with.  I agree we've been shafted, but it's just such a small gain in terms of real dps it's hard for me to care too much.
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Offline nedoirah

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Re: Test Patch Message 6/24 (Beastlord Changes alot)
« Reply #29 on: June 26, 2010, 01:25:47 am »
- Beastlord - Decreased the cast time and increased the recast time on all ranks of Salve of Reshan. - 1 sec cast time, about a 2 sec recast time   8-)
- Beastlord - Increased the heal amount of all ranks of Salve of Reshan.
- Beastlord - Increased the HP granted by all ranks of Focus of Yemall. - Rk. I gave 1009hp so an extra 93hp
- Beastlord - Increased the duration of the Unrivaled Rapidity haste recourse to match the duration of the base buff. - Sadly the recourse duration is 39mins
- Beastlord - Increased the duration of Spirit of Vaxztn to 60 minutes. - tick
- Beastlord - Adjusted Pact of the Wurine to resolve some stacking issues with the Enchanter 2nd Spire and some Geomantra clickies. - tick

Not sure what can be done about the pet haste recourse. -

Yemall - Would have preferred to just be given Bloodworg.



I would like to see how much salve was increased. The 1 sec cast timer is nice if it goes live. This makes it more reliable (imo) than promised or minax.

I see a start towards the long road of fixes we need so this is promising.