Author Topic: Raid buffs for burns  (Read 11219 times)

Offline Sikkem

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Raid buffs for burns
« on: August 06, 2010, 10:20:11 PM »
Hi,

Trying to improve my dps as usual and was wondering a few things.

Mainly what buffs you get for burns (outside of the normal raid buffs I mean). Mana Reiterate, Lesson of Toxicity, Potions/Poisons things like that.

I was wondering do you guys use rogue poisons or alchemy nuke potions?
If it is the potions is it worth using Mana Reiterate and Lesson of Toxicity also or do you loose effectiveness of one or all of them (to many procs)?  

Thanks
« Last Edit: August 06, 2010, 10:34:29 PM by Sikkem »


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Offline Khauruk

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2010, 11:54:15 PM »
I've started using Tonic of Resonant Elemental, and I'm liking it so far.  I haven't parsed it's hit rate or calculated dps from it yet, but given the availability of components vs. high lvl poisons (or the summon limit of my Chalandria's fang), it's nice so far.
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Offline Sikkem

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2010, 12:29:54 AM »
I've started using Tonic of Resonant Elemental, and I'm liking it so far.  I haven't parsed it's hit rate or calculated dps from it yet, but given the availability of components vs. high lvl poisons (or the summon limit of my Chalandria's fang), it's nice so far.

I tried Tonic of Resonant Frost with 2 Ice nukes and Frozen Venom but without the benefit of Focus of Animus I found I had a fair few resists.
I tried Tonic of Resonant Toxin using Bite, Frozen Venom and a Poison Dot (for the dd component) and found I had mana issues. We are at that stage where FPoS is still mainly for our clerics.
I tried Tonic of Resonant Toxin using Bite, Venom and Frigid Lance. I have less mana issues but obviously no benefit of the potion on Frigid Lance.

I haven't tried Tonic of Resonant Elemental as I wasn't sure that the difference in added damage to the nukes, 2625 compared to 1875 (I use XIII because of availability of ingredients atm) would be offset by it being added to another nuke. Might give it a go with 4 nukes loaded.

Thanks


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Offline Khauruk

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2010, 12:58:23 AM »
Whether I am expecting to toss para to clerics, or whoever, I always have 4 nukes plus 3 dots up, so I run w/ the elemental ones.
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Offline nedoirah

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2010, 02:10:14 AM »
Whether I am expecting to toss para to clerics, or whoever, I always have 4 nukes plus 3 dots up, so I run w/ the elemental ones.

Which 4 nukes and 3 dots do you use? I use 3 nukes: frozen venom, bite of the vitrik and frigid lance. And 2 dots: ikaav blood and tsetsian endemic.

Offline Inphared

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2010, 02:26:21 AM »
Whether I am expecting to toss para to clerics, or whoever, I always have 4 nukes plus 3 dots up, so I run w/ the elemental ones.

Which 4 nukes and 3 dots do you use? I use 3 nukes: frozen venom, bite of the vitrik and frigid lance. And 2 dots: ikaav blood and tsetsian endemic.

Jagged Torrent? Lol

Offline Sikkem

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #6 on: August 07, 2010, 06:11:00 AM »
Whether I am expecting to toss para to clerics, or whoever, I always have 4 nukes plus 3 dots up, so I run w/ the elemental ones.

You must have a very good mana pool?

On Scrying (pretty certain that's the event) for example I go oom pretty much on the first of the 4 mobs in a burn.

I will give elemental a go once I finish of my stock of toxins.

Thanks


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Offline Khauruk

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #7 on: August 07, 2010, 06:38:46 AM »
Whether I am expecting to toss para to clerics, or whoever, I always have 4 nukes plus 3 dots up, so I run w/ the elemental ones.

You must have a very good mana pool?

On Scrying (pretty certain that's the event) for example I go oom pretty much on the first of the 4 mobs in a burn.

I only have like 35k mana or so, and yeah, I definitely go oom sometime during the 3rd usually.  I'd rather burn the first ones harder and then just do sustained on the last one when healing isn't divided, etc.
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Offline Sikkem

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2010, 08:24:01 AM »
Whether I am expecting to toss para to clerics, or whoever, I always have 4 nukes plus 3 dots up, so I run w/ the elemental ones.

You must have a very good mana pool?

On Scrying (pretty certain that's the event) for example I go oom pretty much on the first of the 4 mobs in a burn.

I only have like 35k mana or so, and yeah, I definitely go oom sometime during the 3rd usually.  I'd rather burn the first ones harder and then just do sustained on the last one when healing isn't divided, etc.

About 5 or 6k more than I do and I am oom at best about 1/2 way through second. But then I have no luck with the rng and get very few GoM procs lol.

I might try chain casting the 3 lower mana spells and only using Bite on GoM procs.


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Offline Orbus1

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2010, 01:01:16 PM »
Ditto what Khar said..4 nukes plus 3 dots up all the time. I did some playing around in Loping with the Frost Tonic and the Elemental and the Elemental was much much better. The Frost only fires off the two pure ice nukes, it doesn't fire off Frozen Venom, and since those two nukes also have the highest recast time you have less chance for the tonic to fire. Supposedly the Elemental will also fire off our dots but in Loping I never tried those since I was just comparing Frost vs Elemental on the ice nukes. Basically all I did was cast our 3 ice nukes everytime they were avaialble on 46 mobs, then, on the next 46 I switched to elemental tonic, the damage difference was in excess of 50k, when I started using Bite it even increased more.

Family has been in town Khar since we talked so I haven't been back to actually compare number of casts to numbers of procs, it will probably be another week.

Offline Sikkem

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2010, 01:19:31 PM »
Ditto what Khar said..4 nukes plus 3 dots up all the time. I did some playing around in Loping with the Frost Tonic and the Elemental and the Elemental was much much better. The Frost only fires off the two pure ice nukes, it doesn't fire off Frozen Venom, and since those two nukes also have the highest recast time you have less chance for the tonic to fire. Supposedly the Elemental will also fire off our dots but in Loping I never tried those since I was just comparing Frost vs Elemental on the ice nukes. Basically all I did was cast our 3 ice nukes everytime they were avaialble on 46 mobs, then, on the next 46 I switched to elemental tonic, the damage difference was in excess of 50k, when I started using Bite it even increased more.

Family has been in town Khar since we talked so I haven't been back to actually compare number of casts to numbers of procs, it will probably be another week.

Thanks Orbus that is really good to know.
I thought Frost would fire of Venom, I wonder if Toxic does?
I have about 20 Toxics to finish off then I will definitely make Elementals.

The potions don't stack with Mana reiterate so I've stopped bugging chanters for  that, I am still not sure if it will stack with Lesson in Toxicity though.

Lesson - 1: Increase Spell Damage by 15%
Tonics - 1: Trigger on Spell Cast: Arcane Force VII (100% Chance)

I would think they would as they are a different effect correct?

Thanks


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Offline Orbus1

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2010, 07:33:56 PM »
Here are some numbers that came up whenI was in Loping today, again only using the nukes, no dots. I was casting nukes as soon as they were refreshed so Frozen is obviously much higher than the other three and this was using Elelmental Tonic XIV:

278 total casts
106 total procs = 38.12% proc rate total

Frozen Venom = 143 casts, 56 procs = 39.16%
Bite of Vitrik = 44 casts, 16 procs = 36.36%
Jagged Torrent = 48 casts, 11 procs = 22.91%
Frigid Lance = 43 casts, 23 procs = 53.48%

No idea why Frigid is so much higher, luck of the draw maybe? But overall, well worth using for the added damage.

Offline Camikazi

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2010, 07:46:09 PM »
Thanks Orbus that is really good to know.
I thought Frost would fire of Venom, I wonder if Toxic does?
I have about 20 Toxics to finish off then I will definitely make Elementals.

The potions don't stack with Mana reiterate so I've stopped bugging chanters for  that, I am still not sure if it will stack with Lesson in Toxicity though.

Lesson - 1: Increase Spell Damage by 15%
Tonics - 1: Trigger on Spell Cast: Arcane Force VII (100% Chance)

I would think they would as they are a different effect correct?

Thanks
Only Elemental will trigger from Frozen Venom, since they won't check against the secondary nukes just the primary, and the primary has no resist type, it's just unresisitable. Since elemental just checks for a detrimental spell that does hitpoint damage the initial FV nuke that is unresisitable fits the description, but that initial nukes doesn't fit with the Frost or Toxin procs cause they specific a resist type.

Toxicity and the Tonics will stack yes, same slot but very different effects so will work fine.




Offline Sikkem

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #13 on: August 15, 2010, 07:37:59 AM »
Thanks Orbus that is really good to know.
I thought Frost would fire of Venom, I wonder if Toxic does?
I have about 20 Toxics to finish off then I will definitely make Elementals.

The potions don't stack with Mana reiterate so I've stopped bugging chanters for  that, I am still not sure if it will stack with Lesson in Toxicity though.

Lesson - 1: Increase Spell Damage by 15%
Tonics - 1: Trigger on Spell Cast: Arcane Force VII (100% Chance)

I would think they would as they are a different effect correct?

Thanks
Only Elemental will trigger from Frozen Venom, since they won't check against the secondary nukes just the primary, and the primary has no resist type, it's just unresisitable. Since elemental just checks for a detrimental spell that does hitpoint damage the initial FV nuke that is unresisitable fits the description, but that initial nukes doesn't fit with the Frost or Toxin procs cause they specific a resist type.

Toxicity and the Tonics will stack yes, same slot but very different effects so will work fine.

Thanks for the info Orbus :)

Cami have you tested this?

I am pretty certain I had Toxin procing from Frozen Venom and I have been told by another beastlord that he has seen Toxin proc from Frozen Venom? The poison part is listed as poison resist on alla's also.

« Last Edit: August 15, 2010, 07:43:19 AM by Sikkem »


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Offline Hzath

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Re: Raid buffs for burns
« Reply #14 on: August 15, 2010, 11:20:02 AM »
I'm about 98% sure you can only trigger elemental tonics with frozen venom.  I think the reason is because the ice/poison nukes triggered by frozen venom don't have a mana value associated with them, and according to kumbaja and raidloot spell parsers that's a requirement of triggering both mana reiterate and tonic procs.

Elemental tonics fire off of any type of spell resist that affects hp, this means any damaging spell or heal  (the increase hp by 0 on frozen venom).  Elemental tonics also fire off of yowl, which is nice.

[21883] Resonant Elemental VII
Target: Self
Beneficial: Blockable
Casting: 0s
Duration: 00:30:00 (300 ticks), Extend: Yes
1: Cast on Spell Use: Arcane Force V Chance: 10%
2: Limit Type: Detrimental
3: Limit Min Mana Cost: 10
4: Limit Min Level: 70
5: Limit Type: Exclude Procs
6: Limit Effect: Current HP
10: Screech
When casting any damage spells on your enemies, you have a chance to inflict up to 2250 additional magic damage.

[21873] Resonant Toxin VII
Target: Self
Beneficial: Blockable
Casting: 0s
Duration: 00:30:00 (300 ticks), Extend: Yes
1: Cast on Spell Use: Toxic Force VII Chance: 10%
2: Limit Type: Detrimental
3: Limit Min Mana Cost: 10
4: Limit Min Level: 70
5: Limit Type: Exclude Procs
6: Limit Resist: Poison
7: Limit Effect: Current HP
10: Screech
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