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Author Topic: What weapon where?  (Read 7789 times)

Offline Sanois

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What weapon where?
« on: March 12, 2011, 02:57:11 PM »
I was wondering what would be the best way to go.  I have:


Rotslicer     

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE PLACEABLE
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 20
DMG: 68 Dmg Bonus: 21 AC: 42
Corruption DMG: 1
This item is placeable in yards and houses.
STR: +32 DEX: +29 STA: +21 CHA: +24 WIS: +17 INT: +20 AGI: +35 HP: +1302 MANA: +1254 ENDUR: +1254
SV FIRE: +45 SV DISEASE: +53 SV COLD: +42 SV MAGIC: +20 SV POISON: +25
Combat Effects: +5 Shielding: +2% Spell Shield: +2% Avoidance: +5 Accuracy: +5 Stun Resist: +1% Strikethrough: +2% DoT Shielding: +2% Attack: +28 HP Regen +3 Mana Regeneration: +3 Damage Shield: +2 Clairvoyance: +23 Spell Damage: +11 Damage Shield Mitigation: +1 Heal Amount: +11
Recommended level of 90. Required level of 85.
Effect: Vampiric Strike II (Combat, Casting Time: Instant)

Swirling Fist of Fog     

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE PLACEABLE
Slot: PRIMARY SECONDARY
Skill: Hand to Hand Atk Delay: 19
DMG: 65 Dmg Bonus: 21 AC: 42
This item is placeable in yards and houses.
STR: +25 DEX: +15 STA: +26 CHA: +43 WIS: +33 INT: +15 AGI: +23 HP: +1322 MANA: +1254 ENDUR: +1254
SV FIRE: +21 SV DISEASE: +39 SV COLD: +47 SV MAGIC: +34 SV POISON: +43
Combat Effects: +7 Shielding: +1% Spell Shield: +1% Avoidance: +6 Accuracy: +5 Stun Resist: +1% Strikethrough: +2% DoT Shielding: +2% Attack: +31 HP Regen +4 Mana Regeneration: +3 Damage Shield: +1 Clairvoyance: +15 Spell Damage: +17 Damage Shield Mitigation: +1 Heal Amount: +13
Recommended level of 90. Required level of 85.
Effect: Force of Corruption II (Combat, Casting Time: Instant)

Slime Coated Pebble of the Deep     

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE AUGMENTATION
Augmentation type: 4 8
WT: 0.0 Size: TINY
DMG: 6
Backstab DMG: 3
Cold DMG: 1

Crystal Embedded Earthbound Stone     

MAGIC ITEM LORE ITEM NO TRADE AUGMENTATION
Augmentation type: 4 8
WT: 0.0 Size: TINY
DMG: 3
Backstab DMG: 2

Offline Khauruk

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2011, 03:47:19 PM »
A reasonable approximation is (WeaponDamage + AugDamage + WeaponCorruptionDamage + 0.5*WeaponElementalDamage + 0.5*AugElementalDamage)/WeaponDelay

Best one mainhand, unless ratio is very very close and delay difference is significant.

So, we have (68 + 6 + 1 + 0.5)/20 versus (65 + 6)/19.  Best one wins.
We can ignore the 2nd aug, since it will end up in offhand no matter the weapon you put it in.  Best aug mainhand.

(We cut the elemental damage in half to account for resists.  Devs say it lands about 2/3rds of the time, player parsing makes us think less than half.  I use 0.5 as just an easy number.  Corruption damage is resisted some as well, but a relatively small amount of the time, so I count it for full).
« Last Edit: March 12, 2011, 03:49:25 PM by Khauruk »
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Nusa

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2011, 04:19:54 PM »
Make that ((68 + 1) + (6 + 0.5))/20 versus (65 + (6 + 0.5))/19). The 0.5 is from the aug, so it belongs on both sides of the comparison. Assuming you like his rule of thumb, that is.

In this case, the comparison is close enough that so long as the good aug is on the mainhand weapon, which proc you like better might be the deciding point. Mainhand proc will go off more often.

Offline Khauruk

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2011, 05:47:42 PM »
Derp,  yeah, thanks Nusa.   I wrote that right after I woke up.
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Offline Sharrien

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2011, 04:32:56 PM »
Speaking of HoT weapons, I tried once to get to where the Dream Destroyer is in SS.  Ran up against an invisible wall in the hallway with all the rooms where I died and haven't had the time to play much since then to try again.  Anyone have advice on how to get thru that area?  Been trying to get my paws on a Dream Destroyer's Hand ever since I did the Library mission (where it also drops) for the first of a dozen or so times.
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Offline Khauruk

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2011, 04:39:08 PM »
Before you get to that point, there's a trapdoor in one of the rooms to the right.  You need to go down through there, then back up in another spot.  Oh, and deal w/ the mixed seeinvis the whole way past that..... (invis + ivu might work, I don't know for sure).

I got mine from doing the Moment of Clarity task, and I recommend that over camping the actual named.
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Offline Mazame

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2011, 08:51:08 PM »
Best Raito = Main hand that a given.
Off hand how ever has a Due weild check before it swings. these are check off the main hand when the delay of the off hand is ready. so if your main hand is swing at a 9 delay and off hand is higher say 9.5 then it wont be ready for a check and so you want to keep it at a 9 as well so it ready for the check.

 so a weapon delay with 16% over haste is as follows:

19 = 6.46
20 = 6.8
21 = 7.14
22= 7.48
23 = 7.82
24 = 8.16
25 = 8.5
26 = 8.84
27 = 9.18

I used 16% over haste because it the clickly I have  but with a bard you would get better but need to have a bard always with you. If your only able to get the 8% clicky then you would want to figger it out for that. The thing you want to keep in mind is that max delay = 9 anything taking you lower hits that cap and will swing at the same speed. so because off hand not effected by the other stuff like main hand you want to get as close to 9 as you can so that you can have as much Damage as possiable.

A weapon that is  50/19 (2.63) and one that is 60/26 (2.30) in the off hand will swing at the same speed for example but the 60/26 will hit for more each swing and when criting will crit for more so in this case raito is wrong if your doing off hand.

That is why you see top rog that have a sword in the off hand and a dagger in the main. the Raito on dagger is much better then swords but have more damage.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 09:03:13 PM by Mazame »

Offline Camikazi

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2011, 09:23:27 PM »
Best Raito = Main hand that a given.
Off hand how ever has a Due weild check before it swings. these are check off the main hand when the delay of the off hand is ready. so if your main hand is swing at a 9 delay and off hand is higher say 9.5 then it wont be ready for a check and so you want to keep it at a 9 as well so it ready for the check.

 so a weapon delay with 16% over haste is as follows:

19 = 6.46
20 = 6.8
21 = 7.14
22= 7.48
23 = 7.82
24 = 8.16
25 = 8.5
26 = 8.84
27 = 9.18

I used 16% over haste because it the clickly I have  but with a bard you would get better but need to have a bard always with you. If your only able to get the 8% clicky then you would want to figger it out for that. The thing you want to keep in mind is that max delay = 9 anything taking you lower hits that cap and will swing at the same speed. so because off hand not effected by the other stuff like main hand you want to get as close to 9 as you can so that you can have as much Damage as possiable.

A weapon that is  50/19 (2.63) and one that is 60/26 (2.30) in the off hand will swing at the same speed for example but the 60/26 will hit for more each swing and when criting will crit for more so in this case raito is wrong if your doing off hand.

That is why you see top rog that have a sword in the off hand and a dagger in the main. the Raito on dagger is much better then swords but have more damage.

Not true, if it was Speed Focus, War Cry and our NF wouldn't be all that great since those would drop most all weapons under 9 with bard over haste. Also checking top 10 Rogues on Magelo the majority use 2 Daggers, few use 1HB and few use 1HS, seems to me they are just using whichever they can get that has the best ratio, since there is no delay cap.

One more thing I missed, offhand does not in anyway wait for primary for it's chance to swing, offhand does do a Dual Wield check but it does it when it's own delay timer goes off NOT when the mainhand delay is up. If you wanna test this just put a stein or any non weapon in primary and a weapon in offhand, going by what you say the offhand will never swing since the primary has no delay timer at all, but you will get swings and the swings will be when the offhand weapons delay is up. All the offhand does is a Dual Wield check whenever it's delay is up, it doesn't care if primary has swung or is going to swing at all.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2011, 09:35:11 PM by Camikazi »




Offline Hzath

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2011, 09:26:25 PM »
I don't think what Mazame said is correct.  If you equip a no damage primary (when fighting a damage shield, for instance) your offhand still swings even though your mainhand doesn't have a delay or damage.
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Offline Khauruk

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2011, 11:27:50 PM »
The two hands are independent.
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Offline Sharrien

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Re: What weapon where?
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2011, 01:26:23 AM »
Before you get to that point, there's a trapdoor in one of the rooms to the right.  You need to go down through there, then back up in another spot.  Oh, and deal w/ the mixed seeinvis the whole way past that..... (invis + ivu might work, I don't know for sure).

I got mine from doing the Moment of Clarity task, and I recommend that over camping the actual named.

Thanks, I'll scout around with my mage eye and find the trapdoor.  I think if I just find a good spot to eliminate roamers without getting adds then I should be able to plow down there.  Nice thing about a difficult plow is that it's a camp more likely to be open.  I've done the Clarity task at least a dozen times and got exactly 2 useful drops out of it.  Got the back which is nice and an aug, also nice but lost the roll.  Never got the sweet H2H.

Update: Plowed through the maze and finally got to the Dream Destroyer's area.  First part of the plow was the hardest, but once through the trapdoor to the lower level it was easy, just time consuming.  Bonus chance for named from the anniversary treated me well, I killed like 3 placeholders and then ended up getting the named three times.  The Hand dropped from all three kills.  Hint, when swimming up and down the tubes, exit them to the south and you can avoid any initial aggro on all the levels except the middle one (the hall that leads back to the rest of the zone) where there is one roamer that can be avoided since you can see it thru the walls of the tube if you are swimming down to it from the upper floors.  BTW, invis vs undead does not work on these mobs.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2011, 03:21:16 PM by Sharrien »
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